I've noticed that if you come to this forum as a "lazy" information seeker, meaning that you didn't bother to use the search function once before you asked "ground up or ground down"!?) you might get less than exuberant replies. There is a tremendous amount of info here at ECN locked in the archives to be gleaned. Please take a moment or two to study previous questions and responses before posting. I think it shows respect! The site might then "feel" a bit warmer to the lurking/questioning stranger. John
