ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
Generator Cable Sizing
by brsele. 10/18/17 07:39 PM
VFD MotorFeeders
by ghost307. 10/18/17 02:39 PM
What do you do?
by gfretwell. 10/17/17 01:08 AM
Good ol' copper pipe in the fuse holder trick
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:16 PM
Another generator question
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:02 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
241,380 Are you busy
177,337 Re: Forum
168,952 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 54 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#95694 - 09/28/05 02:06 AM New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Old...
Quote
250.104(b) Metal Gas Piping. Each aboveground portion of a gas piping system upstream from the equipment shutoff valve shall be electrically continuous and bonded to the grounding electrode system.


New...
Quote
250.104(B) Other Metal Piping. Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that may become energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122 using the rating of the circuit that may energize the piping system(s). The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that may energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.
FPN:Bonding all piping and metal air ducts within the premises will provide additional safety.
Section 250.104(B) was revised for the 2002 Code to state that gas piping is treated exactly the same as all "other metal piping" systems within a building.


Anyone have a copy of the 2004/5 [Linked Image] CEC to know if this got changed to the 2002 wording? Are we still bonding gas to the GEC?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#95695 - 09/28/05 11:03 AM Re: New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
sandsnow  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 167
Irvine, CA, USA
There are no CA ammendments to this section in the 2004 CEC.

To everyone, feel free to ask about any other CA ammendments. I don't have a list of them, but I will look up the section for you.


Larry LeVoir
Inspector
City of Irvine, CA

#95696 - 09/28/05 09:49 PM Re: New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
CTwireman  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
Connecticut, USA
Ok, I got one for you Golden State guys. Do you have a code requirement to have a grounding lug in non-metallic boxes for luminaires?

When I visited my friends home while it was being built, they used 3" round plastic nail on boxes that had a small grounding lug in them. All of the homes in the area had them. It sure looked weird to my "back east" viewpoint. They used them everywhere: all the outside lights, the inside lights, the attic lights and the garage lights.

Oh, and I'd never seen cord and plug connected furnaces before. Yeah, we've allready had that debate. [Linked Image]


Peter

#95697 - 09/28/05 09:55 PM Re: New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,708
Anaheim, CA. USA
I just picked up my copy of the 2004 C.E.C. (Title 24, Part 3) today, and read through the California Matrix Adoption Tables to see who is doing what.

Also reading through Articles 80 and 89, just for "fun" [Linked Image]

This will be the first time I have viewed and referenced anything based on the 2002 NEC (Model Code), as prior to August 1st, the 2001 C.E.C. used the 1999 NEC as Model Code.

Interesting thing (at least to me, though), is that DOSH ("OSHA") continues with the 1995 edition of the C.E.C. remaining effective - which would be 1993 NEC Model Code - and has not adopted the 1996, 1999 or 2002 edition of the NEC.

On (kind-of) the same subject, I just got two Commercial T.I. Design/Build Projects, which I will be performing Electrical Systems Design on - and these Buildings' Permits will be applied for after October 1st; so the newest version of the Energy Standards will be in effect.
(2005 version of Title 24, Part 6, chapter 5 & 6 - Lighting Efficiency Standards)

I have downloaded the PDF file format 2005 version non-residential compliance manuals, notes and such, yet I see no compliance forms in either PDF or AutoCAD DWG / DFX file format.

Anyone used the 2005 Bldg. Efficiency Standards yet?

Scott35


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#95698 - 09/29/05 08:28 PM Re: New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
sandsnow  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 167
Irvine, CA, USA
The forms are part of the compliance manuals.

I haven't had the pleasure (agony) of enforcing, but I'm giving a class on Tuesday on just non-residential lighting.

BTW, I think there is one state agency that adopts Art. 80, don't have my book here. OSHPD I think????


Larry LeVoir
Inspector
City of Irvine, CA

#95699 - 09/30/05 07:44 PM Re: New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
scameron81  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 75
Healdsburg, ca, USA
I don't know if there is a code requirement for the "grounded plastic box". Those boxes you are talking about are the ultra cheap blue boxes that are found in the big orange store. My theory on them is that they are for light fixtures that don't have a ground tail on them thereby grounding the light through the fixture screw. I haven't ever used them. I am not sure what purpose they serve because almost every light I have ever seen has a ground tail already attached.

I had the same culture shock when I went to New York to visit. I felt like I was in another country with all the se cable and the meter bases on the sides of houses, and the meter/ disconects on the outside of commercial buildings instead of switchgear, it was real neat to see all the differences in the way things are done.


#95700 - 10/01/05 02:20 AM Re: New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,708
Anaheim, CA. USA
Hello sandsnow, thanks for replying!

If you do not mind, I have a question to toss your way.

Quote

I haven't had the pleasure (agony) of enforcing, but I'm giving a class on Tuesday on just non-residential lighting.


Would your Plancheck Dept. accept the 2001 compliance forms (LTG), on a Planset submitted between October 5th and October 12th of this year?

I ask of this because there are two projects that I am designing, which will be going to Plancheck within those dates; and as mentioned in my previous post, I cannot find "Stand-Alone" 2005 version compliance forms.

I should elaborate a bit on this:
I am looking for "Stand-Alone" compliance forms, instead of having to extract the ones included with the compliance manual.

I already have the 2001 version compliance forms in AutoCAD file format, which have been used as "Base Templates" on many projects in the past few years.

The AutoCAD file format versions are about the only useful ones for me, but with "some" (read: A WHOLE LOT OF!!!) effort, the .PDFs can be filled out, then converted into something I can import / attach to my AutoCAD page template(s), and plot with the complete "E" sheets planset.

The same externally referenced form(s) can also be printed on individual 8½"×11" pages, and compiled to a 3-ring binder (for Bldg. Dept. file archives).

Getting them out of the manual is a bit more work, but not impossible.

One other thing, when will your Dept. begin enforcing the items covered in the 2005 Non-Residential Compliance Manual?

Anyhow, feel free to contact me directly via E-mail if needed.
My address (phonetically) is:

setelectric at pacbell dot net

TIA!!!

Scott35

BTW, where can I sign up for your Non-Residential Lighting class, or other classes?

edited to add the above quandry regarding classes! [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Scott35 (edited 10-01-2005).]


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#95701 - 10/01/05 11:41 AM Re: New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
sandsnow  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 167
Irvine, CA, USA
Scott
Quick answer would be no on the 2001 forms. You would need a variance from the BO to use 2001 forms. I haven't looked to see if the same compliance info can be entered, which would be the big issue.
BTW, there is no equivalent for the acceptance forms.
As far as the forms in the autocad format, who published those for 2001: the state?

The class is at Hometown buffet in Santa Ana 17th and Lincoln. It's the regular IAEI Orange Empire Meeting.
12 Noon. $10.00 includes food. No advance registration required. We're out by 2:00 - 2:30
EDucation program is One hour, so I cannot go into too much detail on any one topic, but will cover all the changes and we'll see where the questions take us. I'm trying most to give inspectors an idea of what they will see on the plans and what to look for in the field.


Larry LeVoir
Inspector
City of Irvine, CA

#95702 - 10/01/05 06:28 PM Re: New CA NEC (CEC) gas rules?  
dana1028  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 163
San Carlos, CA
Scott35

"BTW, where can I sign up for your Non-Residential Lighting class, or other classes?"

Scott - PG&E offers scores of energy related courses for free (actually the consumer pays for these courses in their monthly utility bill).

Check out: www.pge.com/education_training/


If you are looking in Southern Calif. then the utility company serving that area offers similar classes (So. Cal Edison?).



Member Spotlight
mxslick
mxslick
Atomic City, ID USA
Posts: 803
Joined: October 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8084 MB (Peak: 0.9769 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-10-19 03:38:09 UTC