ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Do you count seconds?
by gfretwell - 12/05/19 07:36 PM
"Esoteric" countries and their wiring practices?
by Texas_Ranger - 12/02/19 10:52 AM
Look at this mess...
by NORCAL - 11/15/19 10:21 PM
Fire source!
by sabrown - 11/07/19 08:39 AM
New in the Gallery:
FPE Breaker panel in germany
What is this for?
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 4 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
422.52 NEW section #172808 12/27/07 11:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
A
Alan Nadon Offline OP
Member
In the 2008 NEC there is a new section 422.52. It requires GFI protection for Fountains. Drinking Fountains.
I thought this was resolved several years ago when the definition of Fountain in Article 680 clearified that it did not apply to drinking fointains.
This was the result of some inspectors requiring GFI protection at Drinking Fountains . Unless people were wading in the fountain, GFI was considered unneeded. smile
Now they stick it in 422. One person reportedly died from a drinking fountain incident, because the ground prong was cut off the cord !
It is becoming an embarassment to enforce the Code with a straight face.


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: Alan Nadon] #172822 12/27/07 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 49
A
ausador Offline
Member
Not having the read the new article I am limited in my ability to comment upon it intelligently.

That being said however....what is wrong with requireing GFCI protection for drinking fountains? I have been at this a while and can remember three specific instances where I did calls that involved energized fountains. While no one died or was seriously harmed, in principle they could have been.

Sort of reminds me of the resturant kitchens I have been to where they warned you that the cooler/freezer would shock you if you touched it while grounded. Yet they continued to use them and only mentioned it as ancillary to the reason I was there on a call.

Chilled water drinking fountains contain both a compressor and a condensor, a condensate tray often with electric heat, and other sometimes electrically powered controls. They also are subject to vibration because of the compressor which could lead to cable wear and fatigue at terminals.

Once upon a time when all drinking fountains were connected rigidly to both a metallic supply and metallic drain both of which were grounded these concerns had no merit. Any fault within the appliance would constitute a ground fault sufficent to trip the branch circuit breaker. This is no longer true however.

You may continue to enforce the code with a straight face, drinking fountains are exactly the type of appliance that can benefit from GFCI protection.

Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: ausador] #172826 12/27/07 06:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
iwire Offline
Moderator
I can't see this requirement as a bad thing.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: iwire] #172830 12/27/07 07:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
leland Offline
Member
Thats fine. GFCI, within 6' of a sink. But nothing within 6" of your face?

I think it is over due.

Tamper resistant and AFCI.... I won't go there now.

Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: leland] #172839 12/27/07 09:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,123
HotLine1 Offline
Member
Alan:
I have to concur with all of the above. GFI protection cannot cause any 'problems', and the cost factor is negligable.

Now, how about one of the MFG coming out with a single receptacle GFI device? 15 & 20 amp...and make the $$ comparable with a faceless/deadfront OR a decent duplex GFI


John
Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: HotLine1] #172840 12/27/07 09:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
leland Offline
Member
Breaker for this application I think is best.
No covers to remove etc.But a single would be nice.

Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: leland] #172929 12/30/07 09:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
Obsaleet Offline
Member
I think I will submit a proposal to use tamper resistant GFCI receptacles every where and make it easy for everyone. No exception for GFCI breakers(lol)
Ob


Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: Obsaleet] #172934 12/30/07 12:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Funny ... sometimes I'm tempted to propose that we all return to the 1966 edition, without ammendments ....


Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
togol
togol
NW In. USA
Posts: 421
Joined: September 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
NORCAL 1
Popular Topics(Views)
261,138 Are you busy
196,273 Re: Forum
185,542 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3