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35 foot lamp cord #95999
10/30/05 12:56 AM
10/30/05 12:56 AM
E
elecbob  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 141
WA
A restaurant has a 30 foot long line of booths in the middle of their floor space. The walls at the end of the row are tiled in marble. There is an existing outlet on one end and they want to place a lamp om the opposite wall. They want me to install a 35 foot long cord on the lamp so that thet can run the cord underneath the booths and plug it into the outlet. I pulled up some cushions and there is plenty of free space, safe from physical damage, near the floor.
Is there any NEC violation here?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96000
10/30/05 05:14 AM
10/30/05 05:14 AM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
400.8 Uses Not Permitted.
Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:

(1)As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96001
10/30/05 07:37 AM
10/30/05 07:37 AM
R
Ron  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 582
White Plains, NY
Bob,
I would normally agree with your code quote, but I was thinking .....
Since there is no requirement to provide receptacles in the restaurant, who is to say that the flexible cord is acting as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure.
Thinking about it another way, if a 6' cord was installed on a lamp to reach a receptacle, using the logic in your response, wouldn't that also be considered as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure? A receptacle could be installed at the lamp! [Linked Image]
I don't know the answer, I'm just being critical.
I've never found a limit to a cord length written anywhere (except 645 for IT equipment)


Ron
Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96002
10/30/05 08:32 AM
10/30/05 08:32 AM
G
georgestolz  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 91
Fort Collins, CO, US
You can build a lamp with a 35' cord, I don't see a prohibition there.

I'd say hiding it under booth seats is concealing the cord in the finish of the building, and is also exposing it to damage.

That may sound a bit nutty, let me explain. The freshly built fast food joints are looking to devote as much space to tables as possible, and reduce the amount of kitchen/office/cooler space as much as they can, to maximize the use of a new building.

It is becoming more common to store files in the seats in the dining room to make use of the otherwise unused space. It's not as though you'll pull up a seat and find filled out W-4 forms and P&L statements under there, but you could find promotional material, outdated POP material, training materials, uniforms, etc out there. Space behind that counter is at a premium, and whatever doesn't have to be, isn't.

I am not making this up. [Linked Image]

Dropping boxes of paperwork and old displays into that space makes it exposed to physical damage.


-George
Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96003
10/30/05 08:35 AM
10/30/05 08:35 AM
G
georgestolz  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 91
Fort Collins, CO, US
(And yes, it does make it a bit awkward when you hire a new employee and have to wait for people to leave the booth so you can get the guy a uniform.) [Linked Image]


-George
Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96004
10/30/05 12:18 PM
10/30/05 12:18 PM
G
George  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
elecbob ---

I don't think it is a code violation.

Your local inspector may think it is.

Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96005
10/30/05 01:05 PM
10/30/05 01:05 PM
E
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
I'm with iwire (Bob) on this. Although it is a cord connected item, like many other cord-connected items, running the cord though building finish makes it premisis wiring, and a code violation. Why not run, a new receptical in MC, or AC from that outlet to the location accessibe under the nearest cushion?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96006
10/30/05 03:25 PM
10/30/05 03:25 PM
E
elecbob  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 141
WA
Presently, the lamp cord is tucked in between the wall and the back cushion. It exits underneath the bottom cushion and is plugged into an extension cord which the fire department does not like. The extension cord exits at the other end through a gap at the end of the kick space board and is plugged into an outlet there. Are the removable bottom cushion considered a "building finish"?
BTW: It's easy to drop $75 for a dinner in this place.

Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96007
10/30/05 03:51 PM
10/30/05 03:51 PM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
High end restaurateur seeking low end pricing.

I just looked at a job for a small electric sign at a bank. They don't want a permit, but want to know if I'd do it anyway.
The last "electrician" hired to install holiday light strands on about 8 trees for year-round use, pulled power from the site light posts.
He attached a wp box to the pole base and spliced SJTW extension cords inside it. Then he buried the cord a few inches in the ground to get to the trees. Up the trees with the extension cord to a 4-way "cube-tap" to pug in the light strands. At one point, the cord even goes under a concrete walkway.
All of this is in a nice suburban area with pedestrian traffic. (Of course no GFCIs)
Since the holiday lights have all burned out, they also want to know if I'd like to replace them.

No & no.

Re: 35 foot lamp cord #96008
10/30/05 04:55 PM
10/30/05 04:55 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,926
Brick, NJ USA
OK, 1 more opinion...
Cord cannot be used as a permanent wiring method.
400-8 & 400-7 approved and non approved uses for cord

Also, an extension cord (pluged into the lamp cord) is a no-no. The FD should frown upon this, as we all do.

Redsy; I've seen the same type of decorative lighting install. 14 gauge SO/SJ;

John


John

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