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#58257 11/04/05 07:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 2
Cat Servant
Member
There is a reason some folks are thought of as "safety nazis."
It is, quite simply, wrong and illegal to take the law into your own hands. Cut up my cord? Can you post bail? Don't I have the right to protect my property? Now, if a job super wants to order a piece of equipment removed- well, that's different.

Everybody thinks they're in charge. That is not the case. And there are too many "experts" out there whose holy crusade is inspired by that three hour seminar they attended last month.

Safety equipment- whether it be a hard hat or a GFI- is not intended to allow you to deliberately create a dangerous situation.

I doubt the plumber could do his job without ever getting electrical tools and water together from time to time. He should know this, and do what he can to protect himself. This means tools in good repair, GFI protection, making sure he's not grounded, etc. Still, doo-doo happens. To quote Frederick the Great: "Do you think you can live forever?"

I haven't seen a three-wire sawzall-type tool in decades. With a two-prong cord on the tool, the presence or absence of a ground pin on the extension cord is irrelevant.

#58258 11/04/05 09:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 33
C
Cow Offline
Member
Milwaukee sells a sawzall with three wire cord. I agree with most of the replies on here. Mention it to the job super and be done with it. If someone wants to use an unsafe cord let them learn the hard way. You shouldn't have to waste your own time patrolling for unsafe extension cords.

#58259 11/05/05 01:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
S
Member
I'm wondering if just politely explaining the dangers of a damaged cord-set, pointing out the damage and probably offering to repair the plumber's extension-cord (replacing a 3 dollar cord cap can't possibly be a big deal) might have been more effective than threatening to slice up the thing.

But then again that's me. Attitude gets you nowhere in some cases, ya know?

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 11-05-2005).]

#58260 11/05/05 08:48 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 378
F
Member
You can get a very painful poke from a gfi.5ma is more than enough to send you to your death off a ladder.Who's responsible if that cord gets plugged into a non gfi receptacle and another trades man grabs it by a skinned wire to move it out of the way and fries.i have been instructed in the past to remove the dangerous equipment and or the the contractor from the site in such instances.If he dies or kills someone else because of his stupidity his insurance pays.If he's not insured the liability totally becomes ours.It is the owner/reps responsibility to have properly skilled/insured contractors on site around here.Fools like this cost builders millions a year.One reported complaint can shut the site down while the AHJ picks apart your operation.I say hang him from his faulty cord.Accidents happen but if someone gets hurt because of a known safety issue shame....Be sure your end of the circuits are perfect before any knuckle heads use them.

[This message has been edited by frank (edited 11-05-2005).]

#58261 11/05/05 11:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
Member
Quote
The only problem was that this guy--who was in charge of safety, remember--would cut through the cords without even unplugging them, using just a standard pair of Kleins. He was depending entirely on the CB and the PVC handles of the Kleins to keep him safe. He snipped one cord where the CB failed to trip and the fault current blew the jaws of the Kleins appart and took out the temporary power for the whole site.

Federal Pacific? [Linked Image]

#58262 11/06/05 09:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
Member
Believe it or not (it is your choice to believe it, but ignorance is "bliss", will not work in these cases), it is mandated by OHSA that the electrical contractor on construction jobsites be responsible for checking all electrical cords for all other trades. I am not sure how or why that determination evolved, but it is a fact.

Every cord is to be check by continuity, and visual to make sure all of the conductor/contacts are in proper order, and the insulation (outer cord) is to be visually checked - the best part is this is to be documented.

If you do not want to believe this, that is fine, but sticking your head in the sand leaves your BUTT in the air for target practice.

We all know what goes on, and that is because no one is policing this, but one day it will bite someone.
A Construction worker was killed on a jobsite recently where we work - the temporary wiring was a mess, and his cord was nicked. He was electrocuted when the damaged portion of his cord was in a puddle, and he walked into the puddle.

When I hear more, I will let you know what happens, who is sued, etc...

Stallcup has a couple of books written in english that make this topic a little easier to understand, and find the proper requirements.

[This message has been edited by PCBelarge (edited 11-06-2005).]


Pierre Belarge
#58263 11/06/05 09:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Pierre,

Quote
it is mandated by OHSA that the electrical contractor on construction jobsites be responsible for checking all electrical cords for all other trades.

I have to dispute that, I was always told the same thing. It turns out that is not the case at all.

Please check out these links to OHSA Standard Interpretations.
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=250 46
.
.
. http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=250 11

The basic upshot of these OSHA Standard interpretations is this.

It is not the ECs responsibility to provide or maintain GFCIs or the assured grounding program for anyone but their own employees.

It is the drywalling company that has to make sure their employees use GFCIs or assured grounding, it is the roofing company that has to make sure their employees follow the rules.

It makes much more sense this way because I have no authority as an electrician to inspect other trades tools or put those tools out of service. (Unless this is contained in contract documents)

Bob

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 11-06-2005).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#58264 11/06/05 10:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
Member
Seems to me that if that were the law, it would be grossly unfair for the EC to be responsible for every bit of junk that somebody else brings on site, quite probably without his knowledge.

#58265 11/06/05 01:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 2
Cat Servant
Member
Paul, our OSHA gives us two choices when it comes to temporary jobsite power.
Choice #1 is the liberal use of GFI protection of circuits. With the affordability of GFI's, this is pretty much a no-brainer.

Choice #2 is to have an "assured grounding program," which involves inspections of all cords and equipment- and the accompanying documentation.

#58266 11/06/05 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Yes that is clear, the question has become who must enforce / supply / maintain either of those programs.

IMO, OSHA regs do not require the EC on site to be the safety police for every other contractor.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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