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#27788 08/01/03 12:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4
Junior Member
I have a customer I am dealing with right now that is very anal and demanding! yet they have always offered me repeat business and rarley complain about anything except for stupid trivial little things. I do mostly all residential work and the represent one of the largest properties I work on, over 5 Ac. with various buidlings and garages all over it.

Anway in the guest house on their grounds they have and older, I would guess 70's Arrow-Hart Murray 36 position 150A panel. the type with the old red main breker with lugs mounted on top. They have requested it be upgraded to 200A due to a new heat-pump goin in and shop equipment being added in the basment as well as a spa. First Question, THey were very specific in stating that they DID NOT want the panel replaced under any circumstance they were even kind enough to provide me with a 200A older red stlye murray breaker. The panel is rated at 200A and it does not seem to be in too bad of shape so i don't see any reason it HAS to be replaced?
But it gets even a little more bizzar. The panel has about 12 spaces left and obviously I will be adding circuits. They were very specifi in requesting the 15 and 20 A breakers to be idenitcal to the exisintg ones. They are 1/2 size with 2 breakers to a unit and are either red or blue for 20 and 15 amp respectivley. They would not allow me to install ones with black switches on them! I explained that murray doesnt make that style any longer but they won't hear of it! The insist that I must have a source for getting a 2 or 3 of these breakers, they even suggested I hold off on that project and do there other work until I find another job where that style breaker is being discarded!

So and advice on what you would do with the existing panel and if ANYONE knows ANYWHERE I could get the older style murray breakers from I'd really appricate it. These breakers have the older murray logo on the side with the sprial line around the wording. Even if you know of where I could get used ones they'd be thrilled and I'd be too!

On a side note, I have read this board for some time but never really needed to post before becuase after doing a search I'd find my question could be answered. So thanks for all the help you all have provided me wiht so far.


#27789 08/01/03 12:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
I can't help you at all relative to your question of continued use of the panel.

However, here's a start to search for breakers. Some of these are listed as "used" breakers. (I wonder if there are problems with liability from installing used equipment?)!products/grp!325

#27790 08/01/03 01:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
Why is the customer insisting on THAT specific breaker?

Are they trying to preserve some sort of museum here or something? Cosmetic appearance of the breaker box?

Not being glib, it's just a bit weird...

Some people.... [Linked Image]

Of course it's too bad that Murray dropped th e color-coded toggles. It's a much better system than just a teeny little number engraved on the handle -- and sometimes the number gets defaced so you don't know the amperage of the circuit.

#27791 08/01/03 02:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 36
In addition to ThinkGood's links, here are some more, but they may be used. That doesn't seem to be a problem for your customer, buti"d be leerey about any warranty.
877-BRKRS4L(ess) [phone]


You might try PEARL, [ Professional Electrical Aparatus Recyclers League, and they may be able to direct you to a particular member firm. e-mail:

I hope it helps.

#27792 08/01/03 03:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 59
Tell me how many of each breaker you are looking for, and I will look in the shop. I should have some laying around.

#27793 08/01/03 05:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
I hope you are charging them for the time it takes to hunt this stuff down!

#27794 08/01/03 06:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4
Junior Member
I plan to, but they give me so much work as it is! These are the same people that have a bulldog pushmatic load center in their 6 car garage with numerous power tools welder etc... Its a 150A panel. When I told them some of the breakers were in bad shape and we should replace the panel they agreed. When I arrived there the following day to get to work, the couple informed me that had found replacement breakers and would be happy to purcahse them and "pay for as much extra labor is needed to install new breakers and rewire the panel". So I agreed! I couldnt really force them to replace a panel, espically if it's not unsafe, at least not after replacing the breakers and rewiring it. I told them I can't offer and warranty on these older breakers/parts. They said they didnt care and they understand, the husband noted that he would be happy to pay to have it replaced with yet another used breaked if there were problems!

Has anyone ever encountered anyone like this!

PS: Sparky, I emailed you about the older murray breakers I am looking for.


#27795 08/01/03 09:52 PM
I saw some of those color coded tandems in an Ace Hardware store. I didn't look to see if they were made by Murray though. A lot of hardware stores have merchandise on the shelf for many years.

#27796 08/02/03 06:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
I have seen tons of these breakers and none are Murray. They all seem to be Bryant or Westinghouse. Whatever the case with all the hunting you are doing these should be the most expensive breakers they will ever buy. Also these people sound like a pain in the rump. When a customer starts dictating which type of equipment they must have (particularly breakers and such) and supplying old equipment that likley does not meet todays code I insist on doing it the right way or I walk away.

#27797 08/02/03 07:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 48
Wow Sharps, I would still be laying on the floor laughing, You are a credit to the industry with patience like that. I wish I had that kind of patience.

I can hear it now...Hunny do these breakers match the wallpaper....Do your circuit breakers come in Mauve or Melon???I would like them to match the babies room...

Just my 2 cents [Linked Image]

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