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Joined: Oct 2000
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In some parts of the USA the 'Kings Castle' laws transend all others, even insurance liability.
This is the Vermont stance, btw. Every day i've been in biz, i've had to sell myself as the ambassador of the N.E.C.
So here's the flipside of the nanny state argument here, because when you ARE in said position, you'll find yourself needing to VALIDATE your opinions
the 'written in blood', or 'it's the code' scare tactics may as well be some druid chat
no law, code, act, or legislation made by the people. for the people truly has legs without majority consent of the people .....~S~
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Joined: May 2005
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Greg, I find that a lot of issues that cause the #2 attitude is where the Inspector gets out to a site for an inspection, finds that the HO has done something totally wrong and then the HO wants to argue that "it should be fine...why are you going to make me rip it out and do it again...that's just bogus"??
I find that if you politely ask the AHJ before you start something that you don't understand, many of them will help you out or point you in the right direction. It's a lot nicer for everyone involved to inspect something that's 90% right than something that's 110% wrong.
I had a Contrator in an office renovation make up their own rules and got gigged by the AHJ. His first whine was that "the plans clearly showed it", but that went away very quickly when the AHJ told him that I had stopped by the Village Hall weeks earlier and gone over my design intentions before I ever drew the plans up. A simple 15 minute improptu meeting with the AHJ and his boss prevented this guy from dragging us through the mud for his own mistakes.
Ghost307
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Joined: Jan 2005
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I think the root of the problem can be summed up in one word: government. Some of that can be changed, and some is inherent to the process.
The first point is: where else are you going to take your business? It's not as if you have any choice - or any recourse. Just as important, the permit and inspections are thought of as 'required,' which, in this case, means exactly the opposite of 'desired,' 'useful,' or 'valuable.'
Watching private 'home inspectors' at work, they seem to feel a need to poke about everywhere, to give the customer some 'value' for the money. That dynamic isn't present when the city comes.
Let's look at it another way, as contractors: Have you ever heard anyone boast that they 'got a deal' on surgery, or that their lawyer was the cheapest guy in town? Heck, folks insisnt on 'only the best' for the family dog! So why are they so contrary when it comes to their homes?
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Joined: Oct 2006
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EV607797:
Just how successful is the HO ban on doing plumbing? Good question... I've learned this from a relative who lives in MA. He found out the hard way when he left his old water heater at the curb for pickup. The law is in effect statewide, but I have absolutely no idea how much they are curtailing Harry Homeowner projects.
---Ed---
"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
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Joined: Jul 2004
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I have a hard time understanding why homeowner plumbing is more serious than electrical. A fire is a lot more dangerous than a flooded basement. The only person I have ever heard of around here who got busted for "no permit" was a neighbor who built a shed his neighbor thought was ugly. They made him either come up with engineering or tear it down. He tore it down but he left the pile of lumber in his yard for a year right next to the guy's yard who complained. The whiner moved away.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: May 2005
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Here in Illinois the requirement for plumbing is that it must be done by a state-certified plumber.
The justification is that 'Plumbing' covers both pipes containing excrement and those carrying fresh drinking water. They want to make sure that the first never leaks into the second.
Ghost307
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Isn't that why we are required to have backflow preventers at the street?
I think that is a red herring. Particularly when you are talking about replacing a faucet or water heater
Greg Fretwell
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....He tore it down but he left the pile of lumber in his yard for a year right next to the guy's yard who complained. The whiner moved away. So Greg, did you put your shed backup after he moved away?
---Ed---
"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
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Joined: Jul 2004
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It wasn't me. My shed was here when I got here and grandfathered in. I did "bring it up to code" several years ago but the footprint didn't change. It is now a bunker, with 150mph rated block construction. http://gfretwell.com/electrical/brick_shed_house.jpg
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Jul 2002
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Greg, I can see what you mean about replacing a tap or a hot water cylinder. Pretty much, over here people can do thier own plumbing, bar the sewerage piping work, you have to be a licenced craftsman plumber to even lay these pipes. There have been quite a few home-owners (and building companies) hauled before the courts over here and fined quite a few thousand dollars.
And rightfully so I say, you can't afford to have idiots installing something as critical as sewerage piping. A wrong connection or a badly glued joint could conceivably make a lot of people sick, a leaking joint could go un-noticed for years, while it fills the ground below it (and the ground-water) with foul water.
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Tom
Shinnston, WV USA
Posts: 1,044
Joined: January 2001
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