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Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: renosteinke] #184120 02/02/09 02:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
A
Alan Nadon Offline
Member
Prior to 1993 NEC all the interior metal water piping was considered part of the GEC system. The NEC 1993 allowed only within five feet of entry to the building as the point of ground because of all the non metallic piping.
Many pre-'93 homes that were upgraded will have three wire receptacles on two wire circuits with the ground going to the closest water pipe. This was especially common for the GFI outlet in the bathroom (required in 1978) until the exception to 210.7(D) in the 1984 NEC allowed a GFI without a ground.
The information that a surge protector will not work without a ground is absolutely correct. Without a ground it has no place for the surge to go. Also a non-ground GFI will offer no protection to the computer even when used with a surge protector.


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: Alan Nadon] #184128 02/02/09 07:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
George Little Offline
Member
Along these same lines, I wrote a violation to a contractor who sold the home owner on the IG receptacle and then wired it with 12/2w/ground NM cable and used a non-metallic box. "What's wrong with that?" he said.


George Little
Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: George Little] #184145 02/03/09 03:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 99
T
Tripp Offline OP
Member
Alan - I didn't think even a grounded GFCI was there to protect equipment. I've always thought of GCFIs as personnel protection.

Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: Tripp] #184157 02/03/09 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Tripp, you're technically correct. However, since GFCI's have that electronic component, they manage to provide some surge protection ... by letting their smoke out!

Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: renosteinke] #184163 02/03/09 03:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,604
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
Actually I imagine the trip through the little toroid transformer might filter out some small transients. I know an engineer who said a simple overhand knot in the cord would filter out some very high frequency noise. I don't know how true it is but I am never in a hurry to untie a knot that develops in the cord of my electronics.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: gfretwell] #184181 02/03/09 11:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 99
T
Tripp Offline OP
Member
GEORGE: "...an IG receptacle...wired...with 12/2w/ground NM and used a nonmetallic box."

Well, what IS wrong with that? As long as that EGC goes directly back to the service. (I love these opportunities to expose my ignorance.)

-Tripp

Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: Tripp] #184182 02/03/09 11:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 99
T
Tripp Offline OP
Member
GREG - Now you're just hurting my head!

- Tripp

Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: Tripp] #184193 02/04/09 12:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
leland Offline
Member
12/2 w grd is not isolated.

Now Isolated ground may require a new thread.

(Wink,Wink,Nudge)

But first, Break out the code book, You'll need it to follow along.

Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: George Little] #184195 02/04/09 12:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
leland Offline
Member
Originally Posted by George Little
Along these same lines, I wrote a violation to a contractor who sold the home owner on the IG receptacle and then wired it with 12/2w/ground NM cable and used a non-metallic box. "What's wrong with that?" he said.


The Violation was..........?

Re: Replacement receptacles [Re: leland] #184197 02/04/09 12:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Sounds like someone is worried that a metal faceplate might be used.

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