ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Happy Thanksgiving
by HotLine1 - 11/26/20 12:11 PM
Ground fault remover :-)
by NORCAL - 11/26/20 08:13 AM
Work Gloves?
by sabrown - 11/25/20 01:54 PM
Insulated Tools: A Waste of Money?
by sabrown - 11/25/20 01:52 PM
What does your work place look like?
by Lostazhell - 11/25/20 02:56 AM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (HotLine1), 17 guests, and 21 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Another fine dryer instal #165615 07/01/07 05:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
The cable in these pics is a form of Romex that has not, I think, been made for decades. A flat three wire cable, with an outer jacket of soft, grey PVC. The hot and neutral wires were insulated (TW, I think), while the center ground was simply wrapped in paper. The insulated conductors were stranded. The ground was solid, but a gage smaller than the insulated wires.

I'm pretty sure that no edition of the code endorsed running the cable across, and through, the doorway. This is 'as installed;' it did not simply fall free. I also expect that even a handyman could have run the cable in a neater manner across the wall!

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: renosteinke] #165620 07/01/07 05:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
F
frenchelectrican Offline
Member
John that type of wire i did see it few time in my area as well and i am not very crazy with this type of older style flat 3 conductors wire it pretty easy to get it mixed up with the UF verson both look the same.

I did see one apt area with flat three wire what you have seen on the photo i did fix one place for water heater and i have to replace the whole thing because the wire were too small [ they ran 12 gauge wire with 25 amp fuse on 208 volts ] so got it on correct size and correct voltage [ they did tie the waterheater on wild leg ]

Merci, Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: frenchelectrican] #165653 07/02/07 09:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
E
EV607797 Offline
Member
SEU cable was frequently used everywhere I've been on the east coast for dryers and ranges for quite some time, in fact my 1992 house has it. It was permissible to use the bare concentric conductor as the neutral due to low or minimal anticipated 120 volt load.

The first electrical contractor that I ever worked for misinterpreted this loophole and began having us use 10/2, 8/2 or even 6/2 Romex for these installations. He even had us using 10/2 BX for dryers, cook tops and wall ovens! I hate to think of the dozens of installations we did like that. Sure, he clearly misunderstood that it was OK to do this with Romex, but I don't know how in the world he felt that using the armor of the BX was an acceptable current carrying conductor.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: EV607797] #165667 07/02/07 06:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
iwire Offline
Moderator
10/3 UF cable is flat.



Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: iwire] #165671 07/02/07 08:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
This is not SEU or UF. That's what struck me as unusual.
I call it "Romex," or NM, because the ground wire was simply wrapped in paper ... and the outer jacket did not separate the conductors.

Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: renosteinke] #165695 07/03/07 12:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
E
EV607797 Offline
Member
Phelps-Dodge used to make their Romex with a black or light blue outer jacket in the 70's and early 80's. Cadillac Cable made their jackets in green or brown. I guess manufacturers have the opportunity to color their jacket to make their product more recognizable.

I have also seen some manufacturers who made 8/2 and larger have black and RED conductors instead of black and WHITE. I guess that's because it's not likely that there would be a need for a 40 amp 120 volt circuit.

The paper-wrapped ground wire is definitely indicative of Romex or more specifically, NM cable.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: EV607797] #165706 07/03/07 04:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 790
W
wa2ise Offline
Member
Originally Posted by EV607797


The first electrical contractor that I ever worked for misinterpreted this loophole and began having us use 10/2, 8/2 or even 6/2 Romex for these installations. He even had us using 10/2 BX for dryers, cook tops and wall ovens! I hate to think of the dozens of installations we did like that. Sure, he clearly misunderstood that it was OK to do this with Romex, but I don't know how in the world he felt that using the armor of the BX was an acceptable current carrying conductor.


Didn't the inspector AHJ catch and fail these installs?

Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: wa2ise] #165773 07/05/07 08:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline
Member
Quote
Phelps-Dodge used to make their Romex with a black or light blue outer jacket in the 70's and early 80's. Cadillac Cable made their jackets in green or brown.


White and gray are the only options available for the British equivalent of NM. Go back to the early 1970s and you had the choice of gray or..... er, gray.

Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: wa2ise] #165777 07/05/07 09:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
E
EV607797 Offline
Member
Oddly, this was in small-town New Jersey in the late 1970's. The towns didn't have their own inspectors; they used contractors to perform the inspections. My boss was very good friends with both of them and I seriously doubt that they ever even looked at our work.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
TOOL_5150
TOOL_5150
Bay Area
Posts: 61
Joined: August 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 9
Popular Topics(Views)
271,965 Are you busy
205,853 Re: Forum
193,929 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3