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#165615 - 07/01/07 06:15 PM Another fine dryer instal  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
The cable in these pics is a form of Romex that has not, I think, been made for decades. A flat three wire cable, with an outer jacket of soft, grey PVC. The hot and neutral wires were insulated (TW, I think), while the center ground was simply wrapped in paper. The insulated conductors were stranded. The ground was solid, but a gage smaller than the insulated wires.

I'm pretty sure that no edition of the code endorsed running the cable across, and through, the doorway. This is 'as installed;' it did not simply fall free. I also expect that even a handyman could have run the cable in a neater manner across the wall!

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


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#165620 - 07/01/07 06:59 PM Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: renosteinke]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
John that type of wire i did see it few time in my area as well and i am not very crazy with this type of older style flat 3 conductors wire it pretty easy to get it mixed up with the UF verson both look the same.

I did see one apt area with flat three wire what you have seen on the photo i did fix one place for water heater and i have to replace the whole thing because the wire were too small [ they ran 12 gauge wire with 25 amp fuse on 208 volts ] so got it on correct size and correct voltage [ they did tie the waterheater on wild leg ]

Merci, Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#165653 - 07/02/07 10:49 AM Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: frenchelectrican]  
EV607797  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
SEU cable was frequently used everywhere I've been on the east coast for dryers and ranges for quite some time, in fact my 1992 house has it. It was permissible to use the bare concentric conductor as the neutral due to low or minimal anticipated 120 volt load.

The first electrical contractor that I ever worked for misinterpreted this loophole and began having us use 10/2, 8/2 or even 6/2 Romex for these installations. He even had us using 10/2 BX for dryers, cook tops and wall ovens! I hate to think of the dozens of installations we did like that. Sure, he clearly misunderstood that it was OK to do this with Romex, but I don't know how in the world he felt that using the armor of the BX was an acceptable current carrying conductor.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

#165667 - 07/02/07 07:50 PM Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: EV607797]  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
10/3 UF cable is flat.



Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#165671 - 07/02/07 09:44 PM Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: iwire]  
renosteinke  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
This is not SEU or UF. That's what struck me as unusual.
I call it "Romex," or NM, because the ground wire was simply wrapped in paper ... and the outer jacket did not separate the conductors.


#165695 - 07/03/07 01:22 PM Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: renosteinke]  
EV607797  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Phelps-Dodge used to make their Romex with a black or light blue outer jacket in the 70's and early 80's. Cadillac Cable made their jackets in green or brown. I guess manufacturers have the opportunity to color their jacket to make their product more recognizable.

I have also seen some manufacturers who made 8/2 and larger have black and RED conductors instead of black and WHITE. I guess that's because it's not likely that there would be a need for a 40 amp 120 volt circuit.

The paper-wrapped ground wire is definitely indicative of Romex or more specifically, NM cable.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

#165706 - 07/03/07 05:18 PM Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: EV607797]  
wa2ise  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 784
Oradell NJ USA
Originally Posted by EV607797


The first electrical contractor that I ever worked for misinterpreted this loophole and began having us use 10/2, 8/2 or even 6/2 Romex for these installations. He even had us using 10/2 BX for dryers, cook tops and wall ovens! I hate to think of the dozens of installations we did like that. Sure, he clearly misunderstood that it was OK to do this with Romex, but I don't know how in the world he felt that using the armor of the BX was an acceptable current carrying conductor.


Didn't the inspector AHJ catch and fail these installs?


#165773 - 07/05/07 09:32 AM Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: wa2ise]  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
Phelps-Dodge used to make their Romex with a black or light blue outer jacket in the 70's and early 80's. Cadillac Cable made their jackets in green or brown.


White and gray are the only options available for the British equivalent of NM. Go back to the early 1970s and you had the choice of gray or..... er, gray.


#165777 - 07/05/07 10:33 AM Re: Another fine dryer instal [Re: wa2ise]  
EV607797  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Oddly, this was in small-town New Jersey in the late 1970's. The towns didn't have their own inspectors; they used contractors to perform the inspections. My boss was very good friends with both of them and I seriously doubt that they ever even looked at our work.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."


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