ECN Forum Forums Safety Discussion and News Occupational Safety Discussion A shocking story: Here's one, tell me yours

Hey Trumpy,

What do you mean when you say that neutrals can end up with line voltage at the ends when they're cut at a fitting? By fitting, do you mean wire nut or other termination? I should test the voltage more often on neutrals.

Why does a neutral sometimes have line voltage on it? I know that a neutral is supposed to carry the balance of the load of the hot wire, it's surprising to read that it can have full line voltage.

My Fluke is the new 336, 600 volts true rms with amp clamp, it does everything I want it to do, including DC volts and DC amps. My co-workers said I wouldn't need the DC part of it, but sometimes I work on my vehicle or other DC setup like alarms, so I really want DC capability.

I had a cheap meter, then stepped up to a Greenlee 1000v, but it was inconsistent and I returned it for another, but they didn't have another one so I took the Greenlee 600v meter instead. I was happier with that one, I like the smaller clamp to get into tight areas, but both Greenlees took forever to zero out and that was a pain.

I love the Fluke, to me it's worth the extra money. It zeroes out super fast and has all the features I want.

Thanks for the story about electricians getting electrocuted on a neutral busbar & wire, I'll remember that. I'll start checking voltage at the neutral and at the neutral busbar so I know what voltage is present. Maybe I'll even test the amperage on neutrals. I've seen neutrals that were hooked up to hot wires, so I know not to assume that a hot or gray wire is truly a neutral.

Spark Master,
Just remember that in a single Phase circuit, the Neutral is a Return conductor, to the Neutral busbar.
I have been shot down, here before, for calling the Neutral a return conductor, but, that's what it is.
Only in a 3 Phase Wye(Star) system, does the Neutral, carry the out-of-balance current.
However, if you do happen to cut a bunch of Neutrals at a fitting(light fitting),that carry return current from other circuits, you are in effect, dealing with Phase wires, because, unless that wire is tied to a Neutral reference, it becomes a Phase wire.(Basic Electrical Theory)

Trumpy, you're saying that a neutral carries 120 volts (or 277) if it's disconnected, and that it's carrying 120 volts (or 277) to the neutral busbar?

Yup, that's exactly what I am saying!.
ONLY in the situation where the circuit is still live!.
Strike me down with Lightning, for saying this though.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 08-30-2003).]

Spark Master,
Hey,
Thanks for bringing this actual topic up!.
I am sure that we can ALL learn by each others mistakes, big or small.
To all that want to post here, just go ahead, you are more than welcome, to do so!.
We more or less learn by stories that are related to us!.

thought I would add to this thread. One of the guy's in our company took the cover off a pull box and a poorly taped bugnut grounded out to the box. Lucky for him, he had turned his face away, but still had to go to the eye doctor for treatment for the flash in his eye. He is ok, just goes to show that you can never take anything for granted. As they say, most times it is not the voltage, but the flash that can kill you, (falling off a ladder, lift, etc).

heh~

you know what Spark Master Flash?

we were all apprentice dummies here at one time

IMHO we owe it to those up and comming to show them safe and proper practices.

Steve (aka former 'dummy') sparky

Just to add to the neutral voltage thing. If you did not wire it you cannot guarantee that there is no voltage on the neutral. At the place I used to work at there was a 3 phase breaker that used 3 white wires for carrying the power. There was another time the guys were wiring up a welder. When Joe went to hook up the machine he found that the neutral had 70 volts on it.
Scott

If, in a branch circuit that has one hot, one neutral, and safety ground, and a load attached at the far end, you have an open neutral connection in a box close to the circuit breaker panel, the neutrals closer to the load than the break is located will be hot. If the load is a 60W light bulb, you can get zapped as hard as if you contacted the black wire and a ground with the other hand.

And then there is the case where a run of BX or romex is used to go to a light switch and back. The white wire is hot. IIRC, you're supposed to reidentify it, but few people do.

As a Line Mechanic/Faultsman, I used to get called up all the time to fit the first sets of fuses (Primary Drop-outs and Secondary HRC links) to new houses and new re-developments, from an Inspector that I used to work with.
I would always ask the Inspector, for the TEST RESULTS.
One day, this really tripped me up.
I was sent out to commission a new Underground Development just south of here, I was told that the O/Head part had all been tested and signed off by the Senior Network Operator.
What I didn't know was the fact that, I got the word from the wrong person and also that the lines were Interlinked and EARTHED at the other end, some 3 mile down the road!.
So, you can imagine what happened when I fitted the second Drop-out fuse.
I've still got a scar from where a hot piece of DDO holder went down my back!
Never again, Eh!.