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#144313 - 11/07/05 12:09 PM Electrocutions spark riots  
C-H  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden
Many of have probably heard about this:

Two teenagers in Paris were electrocuted in late October in a substation. High voltage electrocution of youngsters is not unheard of, as the odd one occasionally climb onto trains and into substations, but this time the story took a exceptional twist: Refusing to stop at an article in the newspapers, it lit the proverbial spark that set the country ablaze. The fuel for the fire was the claim that the police had been in pursuit of the teenagers. To date, thousands of cars have been put on fire and rioters wrought havoc on innumerable cities.

This goes to show that electricity is a dangerous thing, but not half as dangerous as politics.

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#144314 - 11/07/05 01:03 PM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
SvenNYC  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
New York City
Yeah, let's not even TOUCH the politics behind this one! [Linked Image]

#144315 - 11/07/05 04:56 PM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
C-H  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden
I agree with that Sven. (I know this is a borderline case of what is to be posted on ECN and did hesitate before posting. I'll immediately remove the thread if the members feel it is inappropriate.)

It just amazed me that an electrocution could have such an massive impact. I find it fascinating how a seemingly minor incident(*) can give echo around the world, given the right conditions. Imagine the consequences if a head of state was be electrocuted, e.g. plugging in a laptop. [Linked Image]

*Minor in a global sense only. I don't think a death can ever be anything but a major shock to those near and dear.

#144316 - 11/07/05 09:03 PM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Some years ago, a similar death occured near me (I was in Chicago then) when an enterprising young criminal entered a substation- to steal wire for recycling.

We can post signs. We can erect fences. We can lock gates. But some damn fool will always insist on being different- and get fried for his efforts.

As for politics- well, we have all seen instances where professional ne'er do wells will take things, turn them inside-out, and attempt to spread their own special form of misery. A pox on them.

Let this incident be a reminder to us all that electricity does not play favorites, and it will zap you if you let it.

#144317 - 11/08/05 09:03 AM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
pauluk  Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
I've been so busy the last week or two that I've not followed the news much, but I did hear about the riots a short while ago.

It strikes me as being not that much different than the sort of situations we've seen in Britain where teenagers have been killed after trying to outrun the police in a stolen car and then certain sections of the public have decided it's all the police's fault.

I seem to recall there were riots in one of the northern cities some months back after just such an incident.

#144318 - 11/09/05 04:19 AM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
I don't think that there is a need to get rid of a thread like this.
As long as it stays away from the political side of things, talk on.
Any idea what size/voltage Sub-station it was?.
These things aren't as a rule easy to get into.
However, I will say this:
The other night at a Guy Fawkes party (Saturday night) upon being called out to extinguish a fire caused by Fireworks, we were set upon by a bunch of drunken youths, none of which looked like they had even shaved, yet they got alcohol.
I had my bunker coat ripped by a flying broken beer bottle.
They are now complaining to the Police because one of our Senior Fire-Fighters turned a High Pressure Delivery on them to get them away from the Appliance.
Fortunately, it fell on deaf ears.
Like the Police in France, we are only there to do a job, if you want to start injuring us, we can only act in self-defence.
I don't want to sound silly here, but, if you hurt me or my crew, you'd better be able to run pretty damn fast!!. [Linked Image]
Oddly enough, most of the people that were involved in that incident just went with the crowd, because of the alcohol.
Most of the media coverage in France is from the protesters point of view, why does no-one take the views of the Police that have to try and control this melee'(sp} or the Fire-fighters that have had to extinguish an endless number of cars and buildings that have been torched by this immature crowd.
The idea of Police being shot by civilians, makes the need for the Army to be bought in.
Anarchy in these times is just not good.

{Message edited for typo's}

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 11-09-2005).]

#144319 - 11/09/05 07:43 AM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
C-H  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden
I hear you Mike! The question people are asking now is if the insurance companies will pay for cars, buildings etc. or if it falls under the "war/riot/terrorism"-clause. [Linked Image]

It is a medium voltage substation, serving the neigbouring areas, that much is clear. The voltage is reported as 20 kV.

Either it is a large MV/LV distribution transformer you often find in cities or a step down transformer to feed the final stretch of MV to the distribution transformers in the area. I saw a glimpse of the substation in the paper today, but it didn't tell me anything. I figure it must be walled, otherwise it'd be pretty hard to hide in it.

#144320 - 11/09/05 08:13 AM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
Wolfgang  Offline
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 153
the very West of Germany
@ Trumpy
France has got different types of polices:
As far as I know the guys that were on the police side in this case, are part of CRS, which is unfortunately known as a sort of bloodhound gang. Nobody whether French or immigrant or even a regular "gendarme", really likes them and they usually just get the dirty jobs. So when you meet them and they are stronger as in this case, it is not for sure that you will be treated correctly.

On the other hand you got in France a lot of urban youngsters that really have no home and no real chance. Difficult to blame one party for that. Just the kids are often still kids not knowing what they do.

This means, as far as I can judge the situation, that there effectively exists a certain liability on the political side.

The rest is a lot of mass media hystery and ist effects.

#144321 - 11/10/05 06:35 PM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
Alan Belson  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Mayenne N. France
I have hesitated in commenting for a few days, largely because a.) it's really a very political issue, and b.) I live here!. I'm going to refrain from comments on the riots, and just say how I find living here, after spending most of my life as an 'Anglo Saxon'.
The French in general are xenophobes; anything foreign is suspect, whether it's British immigrants and their horrid tea, 'ricain 'MacDonalds', ( contemptuously called McDoo) here, or bosch motor cars.
The French almost to a man buy French cars, eat traditional French food, and huffily dismiss most 'foreign stuff' as 'crap'. Ethnic restaurants are as rare as hens' teeth. 'Service' in shops is appalling, employees are virtually unsackable and some of their comments, ( not knowing that I'm fluent and understand all the swearwords and insults ), would make a New York cop blush! Work is not easy to get, even for native French citizens, and starting a small business, for immigrants like myself, is a nightmare of red tape, blocking manoevres and plain bloody-mindedness.
Here's an example. A friend, a British qualified chippie, has just started a carpentry business here, (cut-roof, slating, renovation and rockwall work). He needs a partner to make a two-man team. He can't afford an employee, as social security costs alone are $9 an hour, plus the 35 hour week plus sick-pay, holiday pay, insurance etc... Brit No 2 agrees to be a partner, they start work together. Authorities then say partner must also be a qualified chippie. He was a shipwright, for many years based in New Orleans, refitting ships' interiors. "Can't register, that's a different trade". "Can't register as a laboror, they don't exist in France."! Eventually he hit on the solution, he registered as the 'sales' guy - he had to work on the projects to assess costs for future quotes! One brilliant bureacratic suggestion was to have him as the bloody apprentice- he's 62!!! In fact, the local Brit 'sparky' has an apprentice- a 40 year old fully qualified motor mechanic!

Hopefully things can start to change. A senior centre-party figure stated this week that France was " Bloated with it's own impotence." (sic). Always a good sign when the elite realise certain things just ain't right.


Wood work but can't!

#144322 - 11/11/05 02:19 AM Re: Electrocutions spark riots  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
Over here, with even an 11kV substation, there is no way that you could climb into a thing like that.
Without tearing yourself to pieces on barbed wire.
The tops of the fences are angled back towards the climber, as well.
We don't use Razor wire here, thank the Lord, but we've never had a thing like this happen either. [Linked Image]

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