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Joined: Aug 2002
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Ragnar said:
Quote
In our room some ingenious sparky had installed a 16A only one, so we couldn't even use Euro plugs.

If an Italian 10-amp grounded plug can fit into a 16 amp socket, and the pin spacing of a 10-amp grounded plug and a Europlug are pretty much the same (essentially a Europlug with a third pin) why wouldn't you be able to use the Europlug?

It seems to me that the bigger holes of the 16 amp socket would allow a Schuko or Contour plug to fit, albeit the Schuko will not be grounded.

Confuzzzzed.....

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djk Offline
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Sven: Schuko shouldn't mate with 16A italian sockets. They have wider pin spacing and "holes" are designed to have narrow spaces where the 10A plug fits and wider spaces where the 16A fits. If you try to push in a schuko plug the pins will hit where the 10A pins should hit and will be too wide to push in.

(at least on a non-damaged modern socket outlet)

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:andy: Offline OP
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regarding ranger's problem:
There are 10A outlets and combined 10-16A outlets that have 2 holes per pole (holes are connected like an eight). but afaik there are also some 16A only outlets, where you can't fit an euro plug.

taht pic of the DIY plug, well i dont think this one is that great. i have bought a little different one in italy too. it was wider and hat the screws and the cable holes switched in comparison with the picture. so screw in direction of the pins, and holes at the side.

i would consider both of them bad, because you have no space for using ferrules. (tell me when i annoy you with them damn ferrules but i am accustomed to use them everywhere...)

and also, they dont have what's prescribed here: The Earth terminal must be in shorter distance to the incoming cable than the N and L terminals. Or, you have to leave the ND wire a bit longer than the others. What for? To assure that it will tear off at last if the strain relief fails.

[This message has been edited by :andy: (edited 10-30-2003).]

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Sven,
UK bathroom shaver sockets are usually rated at 20VA 230/115V, so your radio would probably work no problem.
You would not "blow up" the transformer by plugging in a hair dryer or similar load, because the unit is protected by an internal,self re-setting thermal cut-out, which will simply cut the power when overloaded. Many overseas tourists have found this out.

Joined: Nov 2002
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About these plugs:
[Linked Image from 320036920636.bei.t-online.de]
It looks like you can plug all of them in 2 different ways. The ground would stay the ground, but the hot and neutral could be flipped. I suppose the equipment is requred to be designed to expect the "neutral" might in fact be hot? Which would also mean that the equipment won't mind being powered in the USA by our centertapped grounded 240V system (assume the equipment doesn't care about line frequency, 50 vs 60Hz).

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Same thing with this plug. 3 pins in line evenly spaced. Easy to plug it in backwards, so that the hot(blue) and brown (neutral) are swapped.
[Linked Image from audiokit.it]
In the USA, our 3 prong plugs are designed so the hot can only go to hot, ground to ground, and neutral to neutral (assume the outlet is wired correctly).

Joined: Aug 2001
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Quote
i dont know if Paul UK can post on here a picture of the new regs regarding bathrooms..

This amendment gives the rules, including diagrams of the zones:
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/Amd_3.pdf


Andy,
Quote
was ist der Unterschied zwischen Receptacle, Outlet und Socket? oder ist das alles dasselbe?
Receptacle and socket are the same thing. Receptacle is the usual American name; socket is used in Britain.

Outlet can refer to any point where power is delivered. (I think you would refer to this as Anschluß ?) An outlet may be a receptacle/socket, or may also be a fixed device such as a wall-light.

Hope you can understand that; I'm afraid my language skills aren't good enough to explain that in German!

wa2ise,
Polarity isn't considered a big deal for portable appliances in Europe.

Equipment is indeed designed to treat hot & neutral as being exchangeable in most cases. This includes appliances built to British Standards, which makes the fuss about correct polarization here a little excessive.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-31-2003).]

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djk Offline
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Wa2yse:

As has been discussed several times in this forum the majority of European plugs are not polarised for historical reasons.

In many EU countries in the past you had 2 "hots" at aprox. 127V when a load is connected across these you got a potential difference of 220V. This system was phased out in favour of a 220 (now 230V) hot and 0 V (bonded to ground) neutral. However, the plugs and sockets in many countries remained the same and did not become polarised.

It's just a difference in design philosophy and doesn't actually degrade the safety of appliences.

Appliences are all, including light bulb holders, designed to work safely with a non polarised connection. They use 2-pole switches and in the case of ES bulb holders the terminals are shrouded and unlike the US version you cannot contact any of the terminals when the bulb is screwed in, thus eliminating one of the only risks of shock that could be caused by a non-polarised plug.

Other than that appliences pose no risks and in all cases it's advisable to unplug an applience before opening the case. This is also true in a polarised system as it's quite possible that hot conductors could be exposed even though the applience's switch is in the off position. It's just common sense.

The only major exception to this are the UK and Ireland where every outlet is polarised and grounded every plug individually fused and where 2 pin plugs / sockets don't exsist.

Swiss, French and Danish sockets are also polarised when used with a grounded plug but are not however when used with a 2 pin plug.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 10-31-2003).]

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:andy: Offline OP
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the trick of the german lightbulb fittings is that the contact for the outer thread is not where it's turned in, but at the bottom next to the center contact. so, you would have to stick your finger all through the fitting to touch any live part. and if you try to do that, theres no help for you anymore anyways [Linked Image]

Joined: Dec 2001
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Quote
Same thing with this plug. 3 pins in line evenly spaced. Easy to plug it in backwards, so that the hot(blue) and brown (neutral) are swapped.
You already swapped them Brown is hot and blue is neutral. _Always_! At least if the wiring's done correctly.

Andy, hast du das mit Outlet, socket und receptacle verstanden? Ist an sich nicht schwer, aber hier nochmal: socket und receptacle ist dasselbe, nur englisch und amerikanisch. Outlet ist der Überbegriff für jeglichen Anschlußpunkt. Kann auch in verschiedensten anderen Zusammenhängen verwendet werden (nicht elektrisch, z.B. Wasserhahn oder so).

{ Edited only for typo in UBB codes [Linked Image] -- Paul }


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-31-2003).]

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