ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Photos for General Discussion Welder Hookup

Hey...c'mon guys. Actually, this was a first for me, I must admit. In hindsight my post was probably sideways from some repressed resentment having to deal with my BOSS'S jury rig crap and I was perhaps identifying with the welder. Is there one among us who knows of the welder's circumstances which led to that....contraption? Maybe he was lazy...but hey, probably not....look at how much duct tape he used (would have made Red Green proud). Anyway, and that rig I "hooked up" isn't mine...I was ordered by the foreman to hook up the crap which was already made and we were 40 miles away from civiliztion in the middle of the country. It REALLY was the first time working for this paticular company that I got saddled with three traveling crewdogs don't observe their own company's safety regulations. Of course, they ALWAYS were their hardhats and safety glasses. As a matter of fact, I did protest initially, but the Foreman(lead lineman) told me they had worked that way the previous week and please, just go hook it up(the alligator clips). That was a week ago today....You really want to know the truth?...I lied. The "temp.rig is actually WORSE than I originally described. Four worn out sections of #12 extension cord. The first section is 8 feet (and #14) with two bare automotive type clamps....next, a 100 foot section, followed by a 50 foot, the a 25 foot. Could I have grounded it myself?....No. Almost 200 feet is how far I must trudge through chest high foliage to reach a rusted out meter/disconnect serving a 240v. cathodic protection for an oil pipeline. There is no grounding. The old galvanized pipe leading from the disconnect into the earth, carrying the 240v. to the equipment (about 75 feet away and locked in its own enclosure) has completely corroded and is no longer bonded to the disconnect. I pulled the meter, made the requisite connections, and went back to the site expecting to at least get bit by the Rigid threader pony. Didn't happen...I WAS lucky. Am I responsible for my own safety?...you bet I am. Am I responsible for those three other's safety?....I probably should have been. I have never done it before..nor hae I ever have been told to do something this stupid After identifying my resentments as a motivator in my original post.....I never will again. By the way, Brian...not MY crappy wiring and, with all due respect, you could probably learn a lot from me, if given the chance.

The positive note is that I've finished with station service and the AC dist. box. I also brought in the 4/0 copper cadwelded to the yard's grid and so.... tommorrow I'll take the boss's cheesy cord and connect downstream of the newly installed house (control room) disconnect below the still dead transformer. At least this piece of ----will be fused (even if it doesn't deserve a ten amp rating it is current state) and WELL GROUNDED.

Burns

Hey 3rd.
OK you sound like a decent guy. with your first post it seemed like it was your cord and you knew it was wrong and did it all the time. I felt kind of bad about what I had written before and then Brian blew me out of the water. When you are in Ventura CA stop by and I will buy you a beer.

My point was if you know you are doing something wrong bring it to the companies attention. Often times guys will work with bad equipment and not try to replaces it. Like I always said when I ran the maintenance shop I can't fix it if I don't know it's broken. However since it was supplied by your foreman, that is a different situation. Would it be possible to accidently cut the plug off that is missing the grounding plug? I would also think about not doing another job for this company.

Sparky,
You are right, no one is in 100% compliance. But if you know something is wrong and against regs, shouldn't you correct it. When is it OK to knowingly break a regulation?

Hey 3rd, if you want some back up I could find the OSHA reg for you to get that stuff replaced. I just need to know what state you are in to know if it is under FED OSHA or a state program. Let me know if you want me to find it for you. Sounds like it is a moot point now anyway.

Peace to all.
Scott

Maybe I took a little to seriously. But if you reread your post directed to me, it does seem as though you are bragging about how you get away with the crap you are using. I agree nobody is perfect but here in central WI are inspectors are very tough on temp services! Actually the inspections are only tough in the major cities, in the boonies you can do just about anything. If you did not try to brag it then I am sorry for my outlash. ............Brian

Let's put it this way Scott, safety is a very relative concept, if you were an electrician out in the sticks as I, you'd see daily atrocities that would make most posted here seem benign.

One day you'd realize that regulation without enforcement fares closely to unfunded mandates big bro hands down, it just doesn't work.

hey third degree, nice to meet someone that knows he made a mistake & can admit it.i work with a bunch of maint. guys & when you ask what happened they don't know a thing.we all make mistakes & can learn from them, no matter how small or big.ERWIN

hey ! you guys joe's picture tells it all. this guy really does have a death wish.hope it's hooked to a gfi receptacle.

Sorry I'm so slow to get back...
ZR- I've also seen alligator clips used- often uninsulated (remember, welders have good, thick, dry gloves)
CT- I agree with your desire for safety. Even following your advice, the guy will either work with the front removed from the panel, or punch a hole in the side. Care to guess whether he'll plug that opening when he's through? Oddly enough, I have never seen any kind of "portable sub-panel" or electrical supplies at a welding supply shop.
Let's face it: the guy just wants to do his job and go on (as 3rd degree noted).
This is not, and never will be, a perfect world. There is always room for improvement. I believe that the need to perform maintenance, etc., is common enough to warrant manufacturers considering it in their designs. I also believe that some tasks -welding, for instance- occur with enough frequency that they ought to be anticipated- removing the need for such jury-rigging.
If necessity is the mother of invention, let's celebrate this Mother's Day by removing a few "mothers" from our jobsites!

To all-

I have to apologize as well if I sounded harsh. Far be it from me to criticize anyone, because we don't live in a perfect world. We can't always do it the best way. But, as an apprentice, I take safety very seriously, as I'm sure all of you do as well. And when we see something that is unsafe, I can tell that people on this BB are not going to stay quiet about it!
This reminds me of the saying: "Learn by experience, preferably other people's."

Guess what? Today an inspector (for the pipeline) came out to inspect our substation. Since its gonna be awhile before the utility even puts up 138kv lines across country to us(which we are dependent on to obtain our own house power via a single xrfmr....so now you guys & gals know why)..he wants us to temp 120v.power to the breaker heaters in the SF6 filled GCB's...manufacturer's warranty..blah..blah.. Long story short....he has a complete cow over the temp (like y'all did). But not even he is sure how to grab a ground. I know you guys are curious...just exactly how hard can it be? Well..trust me on this one...you would have to see it and understand the politics of "whose gonna". Is it the untility? Or is it the pipeline that must bear the brunt? Anyway, I did an emotional jig with a straight face, immediately extracted myself from the blame, and fielded him to my foreman whose piece of crap it is in the first place. Thanks for easing up on me guys. I DO know how to ground a major switchyard....I wasn't bragging about my unsafe condition (was I???). I guess this situation got out of hand and felt like the "welder" with some resentments for having to use the piece of crap in the first place.

Hey 3rd,
Well it sounds like we all like you. It is true that your first post sounded a little like bragging. But now we know that is not the case. I am glad you let the foreman handle that, since it was his problem in the first place. You must have sat there with a **** eating grin on you face.

Sparky,
True it is only illegal if you get caught. However for you guys who actually work on the stuff you have to realize the regs are there for a reason. Like you said no on is 100% compliant. Even our place I will admit. However the regs are on the books, at least the OSHA regs, because at some point in the past someone got hurt doing a job in that manner. So sure you can get by with breaking a reg. But that is still, as you know, not the right way to do things. I guess that I work in a better situation becuase I have one plat to look after. So I have a controlled situation. You have many situations that are bad to start with. Like 3rd with having a difficult way to supply a ground. The best thing you can do then is do the best you can and make sure that either only you work on the job, or have qualified people working with who know of the dangers.

Let me tell you a little story. It has nothign to do with electricity, but a story about regs. Air nozzles have to be made so that if you put it against your skin the air pressue is reduced to below 30 psi. If not an air bubble could enter your blood and prove fatal. Yeah sure that will never happen. After I gave some training on this a maint. guy came up and told me he had seen it happen. The guy died in 12 minutes. So there is some fact behind the regs.

Sure did make a lively discussion didn't it?