ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
600 KW 120/208 3 Phase Y protection
by SteveFehr. 07/23/17 09:46 AM
1913 American Electrician's Handbook
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 01:08 PM
Green House wiring
by ghost307. 07/20/17 09:10 AM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 07/18/17 08:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
239,264 Are you busy
174,723 Re: Forum
167,102 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 57 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#201808 - 06/25/11 01:00 AM 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets  
Merlin  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 170
NW Indiana
Can anyone tell me what the code is on a old home with 2 wire romex? I was in one today that someone has installed 3 prong outlets in some locations. The inspector thinks it needs rewired to meet code. I can't remember what the proper way to address this situation is.

Also, the bathroom has no outlets at all. Will one need to be installed to meet current code?

Thanks, Merlin.


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#201810 - 06/25/11 02:45 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
You can use GFCIs, add grounds or rewire.


Greg Fretwell

#201812 - 06/25/11 04:17 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
The bathroom needs a 20A GFCI receptacle adjacent to the basin. You probably need the 20a small appliance circuits in the kitchen and the 20a in the laundry too if this is really an old house


Greg Fretwell

#201813 - 06/25/11 09:23 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Just to nit-pic my friend Greg this morning I know he meant to say the bathroom needs a 20a. circuit not a 20a. receptacle. The other option on the "3-prong receptacles" would be he can replace the receptacles with "2-prong receptacles" in some areas based on 406.3(D)(3). Sorry Greg, but I am in a feisty mood today.


George Little

#201822 - 06/25/11 09:54 PM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,853
Brick, NJ USA
Merlin:

What code did the inspector reference??


John

#201824 - 06/25/11 10:15 PM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
Estero,Fl,usa
George is right, you could just run one new 20a circuit and pick up other loads in the bathroom. I was just thinking about the fastest way to get legal. Usually in a "happy days" era house the bathroom will be on a circuit with whatever was close and not anticipating much load. There might only be a 1-15 in the light over the mirror. That was usually going to be an electric razor, maybe a toothbrush charger but that was an afterthought.
Then they invented the hair dryer wink


Greg Fretwell

#201832 - 06/26/11 05:24 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: gfretwell]  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
The Q of grounding becomes even more interesting when considering older nm's undersized grounding conductor, or having it installed via the 'Boston Backwrap' under the clamp of a metal box

Then there is the BX issue

In either case, it could be argued that a false ground is present

just because a meter indicates a grounding conductor doesn't mean it'll clear ground faults....



#201833 - 06/26/11 10:19 AM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: Merlin]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Sparky, The undersized ground is something I never thought about.

How does one approach that? treat it as no ground?
The back wrap I have treated as none present.



#201835 - 06/26/11 08:26 PM Re: 2 wire circuits with 3 wire outlets [Re: leland]  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Originally Posted by leland
Sparky, The undersized ground is something I never thought about.

How does one approach that? treat it as no ground?
The back wrap I have treated as none present.



well having done more renos that there is ascii , or anyone's patience to really ramble on about, i would suggect making the most out of what grounding conductors are present, with consideration to it's efficay


for instance, most backwraps can unwound , and terminated to the box / device / made a solid grounding circuit

it'll still be undersized, so i wouldn't count on it to clear a dead short, but this is where i've many times introduced the mighty (read; slices, dices, makes julian fries) AFCI

iirc, they have a 30ma threshold, not quite the pita a 5ma GFCI breaker would introduce on older cicuitry, but just enough to walk away with some level of confidence

install your two banger receptacles, and let the mice have at it...

~S~





Member Spotlight
sbi
sbi
indiana
Posts: 47
Joined: March 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8032 MB (Peak: 0.9775 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-07-24 04:50:35 UTC