Well... As we primarily do comm. & industrial, the "import" thing has not surfaced in the fixtures yet. I recently went looking for two sconces for my daughter's house. All we came across are "Made in China". Had a thought for a Liteolier model, but alas, 12 to 16 weeks. No, I'm not in Greenland, or Siagon, I'm in NJ... She settled for the "$70.00 China Model"
If the suppliers would not sell the cheap stuff, perhaps they could inventory the good stuff. If the US Manufacturers controlled there prices, perhaps they would not loose market share. It's a viscious cycle, with no easy solution. Someone is making money on the "imports".
If the fixtures have LEGAL UL listing, they are acceptable to be installed (legally) by contractors. We may not like it, but what's the choices???
Boy, we can get off on a bunch of tangents now can't we... We sell "scrap" to the foreign countries, they convert the scrap into items, and we buy it back. I question sometimes the fact of "what do we still MAKE in this country"??
BTW, there has been a assortment of devices that are getting onto the shelves from "overseas"; receptacles, switches, GFCI's, etc.
I GUESS IT'S CHEAPER TO MAKE EVERYTHING "OFF SHORE" AND SHIP IT IN, then to make it here.
What do we still make here????
Re: Made in China#17914 12/04/0203:32 PM12/04/0203:32 PM
There's lots of bad merchandise that comes from China. However, there are also a lot of very well-built things. You just have to be very selective when buying things
The same holds true for "Made in the USA." A lot of things "made in the USA" are made using sweatshop labor (New York, Boston, Philadelphia, etc. are full of these sweatshops) and are complete junk (has happened to me).
When all is said and done...it all comes back to price. Nobody will pay $20 for the same light fixture that can be bought for $5 just because it's "Made in USA."
What's funny about that 17% figure you posted is that here in New York City, practically all the lighting supply stores are owned/run by Chinese folks who are importing some interesting items we would have never seen in this country (USA) otherwise (like a lot of European-market cord switches and lamp-holders).
Re: Made in China#17915 12/04/0203:55 PM12/04/0203:55 PM
No offense against the country or citizens meant, but there is another aspect.
An associate visited China on an invitation to see their manufacturing capabilities for electronic stuff. Back at home he told me some industrial safety and working conditions seemed as if from the stone age.
[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 12-05-2002).]
Re: Made in China#17918 12/04/0209:43 PM12/04/0209:43 PM
Talk about a tangent, I was reading about several items found that were fake that had the UL label on them. The "other" country had put false UL labels on their items and shipped them back to USA. Now I here that UL has labels that are holigrams to prevent forgery. I was looking at a set of Christmas lights that I thought were a piece of crap. There was a legal UL lapel on it that was a holigram. Though the lights were made in China, the UL lapel was made in the USA. Are they a legal set of lights? You would think so. Right?
Re: Made in China#17919 12/04/0210:51 PM12/04/0210:51 PM
Harold: A while back, one supplier had GFCI,s from China......had a UL sticker.....only ones he had in stock. Said "they are 50 cents cheaper...My guy's took a box of ten, that they needed for a job & truck stock.
Got a call a few days later, GFI in bathroom don't work. Damn thing crapped out in two days, in a "private" bathroom in a office bldg. Replaced it with another...crapped out on first "test". Hell, I'm glad they were 50 cents cheaper. I took the stand a the supplier "If all you have is this crap, I'll go elsewhere"....he went back to the domestic stuff. Saw the counterfit article (UL) and I've heard some stories from a few sales reps about the proliferation of the fake crap, and the nice mark-up's that's earned along the many hands.
Re: Made in China#17920 12/05/0211:23 AM12/05/0211:23 AM
Keep in mind that the UL listing is only to indicate that the device is safe to use (it won't catch fire (as fast), won't electrocute you if used properly, meets certain minimum electrical and safety standards, etc.). It's not an endorsement about the quality or longevity of the device.
Something can be as poor quality as you want...but as long as it doesn't bust into flames and kill you.
Also, the UL label isn't compulsory but is used more as a sales tool. Walk into any discount or hardware store and you'll see lots of electrical devices being sold without any sort of testing agency approval (particularly those 99 cent triple-taps, extension cords, grounding "adapters", those replacement open-front rubber plugs with that little slip-on plastic or cardboard insulator, lampholders, etc).
Safety requirements in the USA are sort of lax. At best. Probably because that's how free market environments work.
Re: Made in China#17921 12/05/0202:21 PM12/05/0202:21 PM
Made in China has become increasingly common in England as well.
One thing I won't touch is hand tools. I've yet to see any such tools made in China that are anything but cheap and nasty junk (pliers with jaws that aren't true and flush, unhardened screwdriver tips, etc.).