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#99751 - 09/04/06 10:38 PM Question #48  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
iWire- Go to the Michigan Chapter web site at http://www.iaei-michigan.org and download the questions that are planned for the Section meeting and give me your answer to #48 if you have time.

Sorry- anybody or everybody - not just Bob [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 09-04-2006).]


George Little

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#99752 - 09/04/06 11:20 PM Re: Question #48  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,103
Estero,Fl,usa
For a second I will say these are just a non-flammable gas tank (to avoid any classified location questions). I would ask "are these tanks fixed in place"?
If they are portable the extension cord may be OK, then we have to start looking at article 500 and see what kind of gas is involved.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 09-04-2006).]


Greg Fretwell

#99753 - 09/05/06 04:24 AM Re: Question #48  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
This question?

Quote
48. We see a few liquid gas storage tanks that hold about 500 gallons of gas and have an electric pump
mounted on the top. Inquiring minds want to know how this pump is to be wired. This is usually
considered a temporary installation and sometimes is relocated to a new site. The pump has a 6-foot cord
on it and will occasionally be plugged into an existing outlet via an extension cord.


I have no idea, classified locations is a section of the NEC that I am extremely weak in.

It will be interesting to see what the answers are. To me it seems we do not have enough info.

I would think we would need to know the product in the tanks.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#99754 - 09/05/06 11:08 AM Re: Question #48  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
George, I see these occasionally for diesel fuel, not gasoline. They are usually put under an open shed, i.e. no walls.
The illustration in Art. 514 shows the area 20 feet around and 18 inches above grade as Class I Div. 2. Pits and depressions are Class I Div. 1.
I would judge that the portable cord is acceptable IF it is plugged in above or horizontal to the pump. That would keep it out of the classified area.
I would have a problem with the use of an extension cord to supply the equipment since it could easily be moved into the classified area.
Does that help ?
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#99755 - 09/05/06 04:03 PM Re: Question #48  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
The question had to do with a "temporary" installation and the product was liquid gas in a tank monted on a skid or pallet. The gas was used for High Lows and trucks during the Rider Cup here in Michigan. This question has come up for other sites as well. The tank was moved around via the skid/pallet by a High Low.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 09-05-2006).]


George Little

#99756 - 09/06/06 04:30 PM Re: Question #48  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
George,
I'm just a dumb hick in Indiana, please tell me what is the Rider Cup, and what is a high low. [Linked Image]
If a high low is a fork lift and the tank can be elevated then why don't they use gravity instead of electricty to transfer fuel ?
Alan--
Thanks for the site for the questions. It puts me ahead for when I get to the meeting.

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 09-06-2006).]


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#99757 - 09/06/06 04:41 PM Re: Question #48  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,857
Brick, NJ USA
George:
I had gasoline tank (2) and diesel tank (2) set up to transfer both fuels into a ATZ w/ 75 gal tank to fuel gens, and golf carts.

ALL were wired 'temp' as follows:

Inlet twistlock single recept (36" Above grade), EY,sweep at 'grade, 3/4 RGC (Approx 30') 90 up to a twistlock single recept, EY, (54" above grade) at height of factory cords.

The gas tank was factory 'sealed' after the cord termination box.

WE did ALL the same, as which was going where was up in the air.

Of course, required fire extinguishers & fencing to prevent unauthorized access.

Elec & Fire AHJ's had no issues; State Police & Fire Marshals had no issues.

(PGA Event)

Edit to add 'twistlock twice

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 09-06-2006).]


John

#99758 - 09/06/06 04:53 PM Re: Question #48  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Hey "DUMB HICK ALAN FROM INDIANA" Sorry for the slang exoression of Hi Lo but yes I did mean fork lift. As for the "Rider Cup" that is an intenational golfing event held every 2 years in a different country. two years ago it was in Bloomfield Hills Michigan where I was asked to come out of retirement and inspect this event and the set ups. They had 172 generators and huge exibits and media tents. One media tent had 300 tons of Air Conditioning running of generators. Quite a experience for this inspector. It was a 6 months job plus I got to witness the event- Tiger Woods and all.


George Little

#99759 - 09/06/06 05:35 PM Re: Question #48  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,857
Brick, NJ USA
George:
PGA Championship, Baltrasol Golf Club, Springfield, NJ (2005)

Tents (Fabric Membrane Structures), Gens, HVAC, Chillers, you name it.

112k gallons of diesel.

(Was there as EC, not AHJ)

John


John

#99760 - 09/07/06 05:50 PM Re: Question #48  
walrus  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 680
Bangor Me. USA
Its Ryder not rider just as an FYI.
I've seen UL listed gasoline transfer equipment thats cord and plug connected .


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