iWire- Go to the Michigan Chapter web site at http://www.iaei-michigan.org and download the questions that are planned for the Section meeting and give me your answer to #48 if you have time.

Sorry- anybody or everybody - not just Bob

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 09-04-2006).]

For a second I will say these are just a non-flammable gas tank (to avoid any classified location questions). I would ask "are these tanks fixed in place"?
If they are portable the extension cord may be OK, then we have to start looking at article 500 and see what kind of gas is involved.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 09-04-2006).]

This question?


I have no idea, classified locations is a section of the NEC that I am extremely weak in.

It will be interesting to see what the answers are. To me it seems we do not have enough info.

I would think we would need to know the product in the tanks.

George, I see these occasionally for diesel fuel, not gasoline. They are usually put under an open shed, i.e. no walls.
The illustration in Art. 514 shows the area 20 feet around and 18 inches above grade as Class I Div. 2. Pits and depressions are Class I Div. 1.
I would judge that the portable cord is acceptable IF it is plugged in above or horizontal to the pump. That would keep it out of the classified area.
I would have a problem with the use of an extension cord to supply the equipment since it could easily be moved into the classified area.
Does that help ?
Alan--

The question had to do with a "temporary" installation and the product was liquid gas in a tank monted on a skid or pallet. The gas was used for High Lows and trucks during the Rider Cup here in Michigan. This question has come up for other sites as well. The tank was moved around via the skid/pallet by a High Low.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 09-05-2006).]

George,
I'm just a dumb hick in Indiana, please tell me what is the Rider Cup, and what is a high low.
If a high low is a fork lift and the tank can be elevated then why don't they use gravity instead of electricty to transfer fuel ?
Alan--
Thanks for the site for the questions. It puts me ahead for when I get to the meeting.

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 09-06-2006).]

George:
I had gasoline tank (2) and diesel tank (2) set up to transfer both fuels into a ATZ w/ 75 gal tank to fuel gens, and golf carts.

ALL were wired 'temp' as follows:

Inlet twistlock single recept (36" Above grade), EY,sweep at 'grade, 3/4 RGC (Approx 30') 90 up to a twistlock single recept, EY, (54" above grade) at height of factory cords.

The gas tank was factory 'sealed' after the cord termination box.

WE did ALL the same, as which was going where was up in the air.

Of course, required fire extinguishers & fencing to prevent unauthorized access.

Elec & Fire AHJ's had no issues; State Police & Fire Marshals had no issues.

(PGA Event)

Edit to add 'twistlock twice

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 09-06-2006).]

Hey "DUMB HICK ALAN FROM INDIANA" Sorry for the slang exoression of Hi Lo but yes I did mean fork lift. As for the "Rider Cup" that is an intenational golfing event held every 2 years in a different country. two years ago it was in Bloomfield Hills Michigan where I was asked to come out of retirement and inspect this event and the set ups. They had 172 generators and huge exibits and media tents. One media tent had 300 tons of Air Conditioning running of generators. Quite a experience for this inspector. It was a 6 months job plus I got to witness the event- Tiger Woods and all.

George:
PGA Championship, Baltrasol Golf Club, Springfield, NJ (2005)

Tents (Fabric Membrane Structures), Gens, HVAC, Chillers, you name it.

112k gallons of diesel.

(Was there as EC, not AHJ)

John

Its Ryder not rider just as an FYI.
I've seen UL listed gasoline transfer equipment thats cord and plug connected .

Hey! I'm an inspector, doesn't mean I can spell "Ryder"
Just kidding- Thanks for the correction. Your spelling is correct.

Okay Ladies & Gentlemen- Here's some pictures of the subject. http://homepage.mac.com/georgelittle/fuel_tanks_cord.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/georgelittle/gas_tank_cord.jpg
Your comments please.

George:
Sure looks like extension cords!!
Not on my watch

John

I would ask if they could support the end of that extension cord so it won't come unplugged and fall into the well.

I never claimed to be a code genius like most of you, but I hard-wired a couple smaller tanks like this on a farm with 4X4s to support the conduit above ground.

Dave

I decided to ask this question at Mike Holt's as the Moderator of the classified location forum there is highly qualified to answer and he is very helpful.

Here is the link if anyone is interested.

Bob:
Good move & good resulting comments.

As I said, not on my watch for the gas.

As an EC, I sure think we had it right, as posted up a few.

John