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Re: GFCI changes #98383 10/30/04 05:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
E
earlydean Offline
Member
Ryan,
Do you think the intent was to require GFCI protection for the washing machine in a laundry if it was within 6 feet of the laundry sink?
Or, do you think the intent was to extent GFCI protection to receptacle outlets on counters or general purpose receptacles within 6 feet of these sinks?


Earl
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: GFCI changes #98384 10/31/04 01:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Ryan_J Offline OP
Moderator
I think the intent is that any receptacle within 6' of a sink is to be protected. I don't see any problem whatsoever with installing a GFCI on a washing machine. If the GFCI on the washer trips, it is because there is enough leakage current to trip it.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: GFCI changes #98385 10/31/04 07:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
E
earlydean Offline
Member
How true. I recall in the 70s when GFCI protection came to the construction site. There were "nuisance" trips everywhere. At first we would simply replace the GFCI breakers (no receptacle units yet) with regular ones. Later, when all that faulty eqipment was replaced, we could leave the GFCI protection there. It took a while. If the washer is faulty, then it should be taken out of the circuit. GFCI and AFCI protection is a superior protection for life safety. They may present a problem if faulty equipment is connected to a circuit that needs to be left on.


Earl
Re: GFCI changes #98386 11/02/04 01:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
J
John Steinke Offline
Member
It was my belief that various things could "fool" a GFI into thinking there was current leakage when there wasn't. These things typically became signigicant when motors were starting or reversing under load, or capacitors were in the system- the sort of things found with air conditioners, compressors, and washing machines.
In kitchens, the GFI rules apply to "appliance" counter circuits- it is permitted to have the fridge, dishwasher, disposall, etc. on separate non-GFI circuits.
Just why must we discover bad english AFTER the code is out? Why aren't we discussing this before a "consensus" is reached?

Re: GFCI changes #98387 11/02/04 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 201
CharlieE Offline
Member
John, IMO you are talking about design issues. The Code is written to tell you what areas are required to be protected. How you are laying out the circuits is up to you . . . the design issue. If you place a couple of commercial refrigerators on the same circuit, there will be enough leakage current to trip a GFCI (or at least be close). For that application, an individual circuit should be installed for each refrigerator. IMO this applies to other appliances. [Linked Image]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy


Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy
Re: GFCI changes #98388 11/02/04 10:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
E
earlydean Offline
Member
I would think that if you put a couple of commercial refrigerators on a common branch circuit that eventually, they would start together and overload the circuit breaker, GFCI protected or not.


Earl
Re: GFCI changes #98389 11/02/04 04:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
E
ElectricAL Offline
Member
Charlie,

210.8(A)(7) is going to create some unusual "designs" of area, IMHO.

My customer is going to look at me, quizzically, and ask me to tell him why all outlets within 6' of the bar sink or the fancy laundry room sink are more hazardous than the outlets within 6' of the sinks in his kitchen.

My defense seems to be 90.1(B), that is, that safety trumps adequate service. I tell my customer that the bar refrigerator, though used less frequently, is safe now, just as safe as his kitchen refrigerator. [Linked Image]


Al Hildenbrand
Re: GFCI changes #98390 11/02/04 09:24 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 697
D
Dave55 Offline
Member
Maybe this one will have communities waiting to adopt the 2008 NEC, and skipping this one...we're still on the 1999 NEC in Crystal Lake, IL.

Dave

Re: GFCI changes #98391 11/03/04 12:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
G
George Offline
Member
It appears that the requirements are poorly thought out ...

So if my washer GFCI trips for any reason I simply run an extension cord from a different outlet to the washer - the "problem" goes away.

If my freezer GFCI trips, my food rots.

If I have a stubbed out drain and faucets, can I not install a GFCI nearby and let the homeowner istall the sink later?

Can I cut the cord ends off and use junction boxs/flex cords instead of recepts?

In my personal experience I have never had a GFCI trip due to a fault. Too much ado about too little.

Perhaps all recepts should be GFCIs.

Re: GFCI changes #98392 11/03/04 02:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
E
ElectricAL Offline
Member
Quote
simply run an extension cord
.
.
Can I cut the cord ends off and use junction boxs/flex cords instead of recepts?
Like I said. . .

Quote
unusual "designs" of area


Al Hildenbrand
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