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Let me have 12" #97185
01/30/06 09:39 PM
01/30/06 09:39 PM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Do any inspectors in you jurisdictions permit an exception to 334.15(C) for the first 12" off a foundation wall, or off the middle support beam in a basement.
In other words, can you staple smaller sized NM cables to the bottom of joists within 12" of the walls, or beams?

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Re: Let me have 12" #97186
01/31/06 12:43 AM
01/31/06 12:43 AM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Redsy- We're not on the '05 code here in Michigan but I follow you with the 12" example. I guess I'd have a problem with it and ask the installer to comply with the literal wording of the code. In that same code section they make reference to having a non-metallic bushing or adapter on the end of the conduit or tubing where the NM cable enters. Does this mean we can't use a metal fitting in this application? This is new in the '05. Another new item in Article 334 is the reference to using thermal insulation for fire or draft stopping & derating conductor ampacity when running 2 or more cables through a framing member- 334.80.

I guess the fun will begin soon [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 01-30-2006).]


George Little
Re: Let me have 12" #97187
01/31/06 11:29 AM
01/31/06 11:29 AM
A
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
No exception for NM on the bottom of joist.

George: One benefit of Indiana making up their own rules is they also deleted the paragraph about derating in 334.80

Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Re: Let me have 12" #97188
01/31/06 01:43 PM
01/31/06 01:43 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,298
Estero,Fl,usa
Derating really won't be an issue until it is around 4 RX in a hole since 240.4(D) and the 90c insulation creates a lot of wiggle room. The only tricky spot may be right above the panel. (but that has always been ugly).
Interesting question ... what if I "nipple" through the insulated hole? A nipple <24" does not get derated. Short little pieces of conduit may be saved from the dumpster by this.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Let me have 12" #97189
01/31/06 09:07 PM
01/31/06 09:07 PM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
OK, no staples. What about "Stack-Its" installed on the beam at the proper spacing 4'6"(or less),and several or more NM Cables supported by them? This is common in my neck of the woods, as is the 12" rule.

Re: Let me have 12" #97190
01/31/06 10:03 PM
01/31/06 10:03 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Redsy- I can support your Steelers but not your 12" rule. Small cables below the floor joist in the basement need protection via running boards or some other method but the 12" rule don't get it in Michigan [Linked Image]


George Little
Re: Let me have 12" #97191
01/31/06 11:36 PM
01/31/06 11:36 PM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Thank you, Guys.
BTW,

What is the intent of this rule? I've gotten several different opinions.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 02-01-2006).]


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