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Some Basic Questions #95637
09/23/05 07:54 PM
09/23/05 07:54 PM
B
BigJohn  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 391
Boston, MA
Just want to double check:

Is it legal to put connectors inside a j-box (i.e., the locknut on the outside)? 314.16(B)(2) seems to say yes.

Is it legal to install Romex in boxes and light fixtures without connectors (only use bushings)? 314.17(C)Exception says only on single-gang non-metallic boxes. What about multi-gang fiberglass boxes that have no provisions for clamps?

When fluorescent fixtures are mounted overtop of junction boxes, is that box considered inaccessible? 314.29 seems ambiguous. A keyless fixture obviously wouldn't be "part of the building," is a fluorescent?

Thanks.

-John

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Some Basic Questions #95638
09/23/05 09:32 PM
09/23/05 09:32 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,298
Estero,Fl,usa
If you turn the connector around you would need a "clamp" deduction in the fill (IMHO)

A luminaire is not part of the building finish.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Some Basic Questions #95639
09/23/05 10:53 PM
09/23/05 10:53 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Connectors need to be installed with the clamping means external to the box to be installed per the listing and labeling. The do make snap in non-metallic clamps that can be installed from inside the box for situations where you don't have access to the exterior of the box.

You are required to secure the cable to the box per the last sentence od 314.17(C). The exception is for 1 gang boxes where you are able to secure the cable within 8" of the box measured along the cable.

I have not seen a "Listed" multigang NM cable box that didn't have clamps. Possibly I'm in need of an update [Linked Image]

As for the box behind the fluorescent fixture look at 410.14(B)


George Little
Re: Some Basic Questions #95640
09/23/05 11:12 PM
09/23/05 11:12 PM
J
jw electric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 106
Asheboro, NC
Quote
originally .posted by Big John
Just want to double check:
Is it legal to put connectors inside a j-box (i.e., the locknut on the outside)? 314.16(B)(2) seems to say yes.

Yes 314.16 (B)(2) a single volume allowance in accordance with Table 314.16(B) shall be made based on the largest conductor present in the box.
Quote
Is it legal to install Romex in boxes and light fixtures without connectors (only use bushings)? 314.17(C)Exception says only on single-gang non-metallic boxes. What about multi-gang fiberglass boxes that have no provisions for clamps?

the cable MUST be secured to the box or piece of equipment
314.17 (C) In all instances, all permitted wiring methods shall be secured to the boxes.
300.15(E). (E) Integral Enclosure. A wiring device with integral enclosure identified for the use, having brackets that securely fasten the device to walls or ceilings of conventional on-site frame construction, for use with nonmetallic-sheathed cable, shall be permitted in lieu of a box or conduit body.
Quote
When fluorescent fixtures are mounted overtop of junction boxes, is that box considered inaccessible? 314.29 seems ambiguous. A keyless fixture obviously wouldn't be "part of the building," is a fluorescent?

Yes, 410.14 (B) Access to Boxes. Electric-discharge luminaires (fixtures) surface mounted over concealed outlet, pull, or junction boxes and designed not to be supported solely by the outlet box shall be provided with suitable openings in the back of the luminaire (fixture) to provide access to the wiring in the box.

[Linked Image]


Mike
Re: Some Basic Questions #95641
09/23/05 11:13 PM
09/23/05 11:13 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,298
Estero,Fl,usa
I may be in the backwaters of the world but I have not seen a flourecent fixture with a big hole in the back. Do they make them?


Greg Fretwell
Re: Some Basic Questions #95642
09/23/05 11:49 PM
09/23/05 11:49 PM
S
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 332
So San Francisco CA
There is often a 2" or so KO in the center of the back. I think 2" is a little small to access the box and I haven't seen a fixture with a bushing, to cover the sheet metal edges of the hole(I think they ought to include one).

steve


Steve
Re: Some Basic Questions #95643
09/24/05 01:14 AM
09/24/05 01:14 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,298
Estero,Fl,usa
That sounds like a circular razor blade. How can that be legal?


Greg Fretwell
Re: Some Basic Questions #95644
09/24/05 01:24 PM
09/24/05 01:24 PM
J
jw electric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 106
Asheboro, NC
Not if you use one of these

[Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by jw electric (edited 09-24-2005).]


Mike
Re: Some Basic Questions #95645
09/24/05 03:47 PM
09/24/05 03:47 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,298
Estero,Fl,usa
cool.

To be honest I have never seen a box behind a flourecent. They always feed the wiring method directly into the fixture and use it for the box.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Some Basic Questions #95646
09/24/05 06:14 PM
09/24/05 06:14 PM
B
BigJohn  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 391
Boston, MA
Just some clarification: "Electric Discharge Luminaire," when I read that I assumed it meant for HID lighting like HPS or mercury vapor. Are fluorescents just low-pressure electric discharge?
Quote
That sounds like a circular razor blade. How can that be legal?
Per 314.17, I don't think it is.

If I don't have some sort of bushing, my solution is to cut an X in the back of the fixture and fold the triangles of metal back, so you have a square hole with rounded edges.
But since that takes more time than simply pulling through the 2" k/o, I've been getting heat about it, which is why I was looking for the Code references that y'all supplied [Linked Image] to back me up.

Thanks for the help.

-John

Edited to clarify.

[This message has been edited by BigJohn (edited 09-25-2005).]

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