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#9450 04/30/02 11:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Redsy Offline OP
What is the "coated" as in Uncoated vs. Coated Copper conductors referenced in table 8. The only thing I can think of is tinned conductors.

#9451 04/30/02 04:05 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Coated conductors are those you make relay coils, transformer windings, etc. out of. Normal conductors are uncoated, so use that table unless you're winding a relay.

#9452 04/30/02 09:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Redsy Offline OP
Thanks, George.

#9453 04/30/02 09:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
To further the Q, what are they coated with? Varnish?

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#9454 04/30/02 11:08 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Only you would ask that question Sparky. [Linked Image]
Good on ya mate! Let me show my age, it used to be varnish, coils were finished in varnished cambric, the cambric being a linen cloth. I still mix my own when I wantsta builds one but when I tear up the sheets BOY does the missus get mad [Linked Image]

They are made a LOT more resistant to heat by I'm sure some fancy polymer. Maybe some manufacturer is peering in, but may be unwilling to give up the company secret.

I guess my answer is: It used to be varnish, varnish works fine, a little hard to work with but they do use better stuff now.

BTW, Table 8 shows DC resistance, nice place to start but doesn't have a big basis in reality for AC calcs. You weren't wrong in your answer, but you were .05 ohms off.....shame on you. [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by George Corron (edited 05-01-2002).]

#9455 05/01/02 11:44 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 176
I guess I'm not smart, but if the conductor is coated with varnish or some other "polymer", then why is the resistance different? My Code instructor taught us that the coating was tin/nickel, therefore a change in resistance.

#9456 05/01/02 12:19 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
tin/nickel is a coating, but a conductive one, you cannot have a conductive path, but an electromagnetic path. the varnish acts as an insulator so that the entire ball of copper may be used. Look at all the provisos under table 8. It is really a VERY general table, and due to change from manufacturer to manufacturer. Remember the first article of the code (OK up until 2002) "This code is not to be used as a design or specification guide" that's why.

#9457 05/01/02 01:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
I still come across varnished cambric in the coils and transformers of some old radios. Quite a distinctive smell when one of these burns out.

We can still buy reels of enamelled wire for winding coils.

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 05-01-2002).]

#9458 05/01/02 06:41 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Yup, "If it don't smoke and glow, it ain't radio" is an old saying. Most of my ham stuff is digital, but when it comes to linear amplifier NOPE. I likes to see them 3-500Zs glow at me.

We can still buy it too, boy is it expensive, I have actually resorted to unwinding motors in a desparate act.

I had to rewind the coil for a 1957 BMW motor sickle not long ago, THAT was all varnished cambric.

#9459 05/01/02 10:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
I'll try this from a bit earlier point of view. In NEC Ch.9 table 8, coated vs. uncoated refers to tin plating over copper. The difference in resistance comes from both types having the same OD, but tin is less conductive than copper. So why the tin in the first place? Used to be that rubber (like in RHH/RHW) had some sulfur compounds that would corrode bare copper. Tin would limit that problem. With modern polymers the sulfur is no longer of concern, but some wire like SIS is still tin plated.

[Table 430-149 for 2-phase motors still...1999 anyways.]

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