ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues type SER cable

Joe—

Please take the rest of the day off with pay. I insist!

—Bjarn

Joe Thanks for the updated UL book I will consider it my Christmas present.

Everyone, I highly recommend taking advantage of Joe's link to the 2004 UL white book, it is not a great read but it is a valuable resource.

If you have not seen one it contains info about products we install every day.

Conduit, breakers, fittings, baseboard heat, NM, you name it.

Joe emailed me my first white book, now I turn to it often.

Bob

Code issues aside, it never made much sense to me to pull jacketed cable through conduit when pulling individual conductors is far easier.

Maybe I missed something, but what about the UNinsulated ground conductor inside the jacket of the SER cable? Is that rated to be in a underground location?
Rick

An underground location is by Article 100 definition a wet location. Look at: location, wet.

Early I do not get your point.

THWN, RHW, XHHW, etc are all listed for wet locations.

However no where in their listings will you find the words for underground or above ground use.

IMO that leaves it up to us.

However you do find the words "cable for aboveground installation" in the listing for SE.

IMO that clearly tells us the cable is not for underground use.

They could have simply listed it as cable for wet locations but they did not.

Maybe a future code proposal is needed.

Bob

Just because UL says "cable for aboveground installation" doesn't mean it is not approved for use underground in conduit. It means UL tested it for aboveground use only, and they did not test it for underground in conduit use. It wasn't tested for use in a conduit in the ground because the manufacturer did not pay them to do that test.
Would you agree that it is OK to install SEU or SER on the outside of a building, sleeved in conduit? (Such as we see when we have a mast)
What possible extra harm could the SEU or SER come to when installed in conduit underground as opposed to aboveground?
The same argument could be offered for installing NM in conduit, which the 2005 NEC finally addressed. (it is allowed, but not underground because of the wet location)
I agree that a future code proposal is in order to clear this up.

The letter U in USE cable stands for underground.
However, the U in SE-U stands for "Unarmored".
I resurrected a thread from several years ago with an indepth discussion simliar to this thread.
I think the issue with SE-U installed undergroung is the uninsulated, albeit covered, aluminum neutral that is predominant in the Phila. area.

I asked this question of John Cangemi the answer man of UL. He stated in no uncertain terms that it would be a violation of the listing and the NEC to install SEU or SER underground.
I stand corrected, or rather, I stand with head bowed.

Thanx...I thought so.

shortcircuit