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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
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iwire Offline OP
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Is this service correct?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

No mains at meter, no mains at panels, 24 throws of the hand to kill the whole building.


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 05-23-2004).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 552
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Not around here!


Donnie
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10
K
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Violation...Art 230.70

Frank

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
C
Member
Is this another trick question Bob? [Linked Image]

I say yes, it is correct, as long as the panels contain less than 6 breakers each.

More than that, and the panels need to be changed to main breakers. With all those new wires hanging there, that looks like what you are going to do.

Peter


Peter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
R
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It is Legal. Frank look at 230.71 and take note of the wording "six sets of circuit breakers" [Linked Image]

Roger

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
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Member
I realize that the discussion is about the number of service disconnects but……..
What size are the circuit breakers in the panels? It looks like most of them are single pole so these would be lighting and appliance panels 408.14(B). If so they wouldn’t comply with 408.16(A). Exception 2 does permit this for existing installations but these services don’t look very old.


Curt Swartz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10
K
Member
So you'll telling me that each panel doesn't need a main disconnecting means. I'm finding this very hard to accept.

What about Art. 230.79 (D) All other installations (multi-family) shall have a service disconnecting means rating of not less than 60 amperes.

Frank

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
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I second the motion...

[ghettoEC] WHERE MY MAINS AT!!!! YOU DOWN WITH OCP? YOU GO, EC![/ghettoEC]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 139
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I don't see how the term "sets" applies to this example. It's been my understanding that the term "sets" was added to allow multiple single pole brekers to be handle tied into one switch. (ROP 4-117, 4-118 and ROC 4-69)

As far as the original question goes, I don't see how this installation is permitted. I only see one service. There may be 4 service entrance conductors supplying 4 separate service enclosures, but I don't think the additional service entrances meet any of the exceptions to section 230.40 permitted by 230.71(A). Exception #2 could be used for the the multiple sets of service entrances, but is not allowed to be used for the purposes of 230.71(A) requirments. I feel its a violation unless someone can show otherwise.


Bryan P. Holland, ECO.
Secretary - IAEI Florida Chapter
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
C
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Frank,

230.71 permits more than one service disconnect. 230.80 permits the combined rating of multiple disconnects to be used to comply with 230.79.

Curt


Curt Swartz
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