ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Violation?
by renosteinke - 01/27/23 09:52 PM
Does NEC 551.71 (F) apply to dwellings?
by BigB - 01/20/23 10:46 AM
Power submeter connections
by HotLine1 - 01/19/23 09:09 AM
AFDD's coming to the UK
by Texas_Ranger - 01/17/23 07:22 PM
New in the Gallery:
Burger King crown sillyness
Burger King crown sillyness
by wa2ise, December 11
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 128 guests, and 9 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 129
F
frodo Offline OP
Member
hi,
are you ever allowed to run NM Cable #8 and smaller at a right angle to cieling joist in unfinshed basements, finished basements or unfinished cielings? what about floor joist in crawl spaces or attics without a doorway?

thanks for any replies

-regards

frodo

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:
 

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep
 

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 1
Member
336-6(c) and (d) reverts to 333-12 (which means it falls under the same rules as AC cables there).

In short, you gotta bore holes for anything smaller then two #6's or 3 #8's in a cable in unfinished basements, attics must be either bored or protected with running boards if they're within 7 feet of a permanent ladder or stairs, and 6 feet from a scuttle hole.

300-4(d) also gives further instructions involving the 1-1/4" rule for bored holes.

Hope this makes it clear (and I hope I got it right!). Uh... check me guys...


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 270
E
Member
Most of it is right. It IS ok to route the small cables across bottoms of basement joists if you staple them to running boards --334.15(C). Don't want people to be pulling on or damaging the flimsy cable when stuffing things in the attic, or use the cables as clothes hangers in basements! I don't see any definition for "unfinished basement" and don't know if 334.15(C) applies to crawl spaces.

[This message has been edited by Elzappr (edited 01-12-2002).]

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 129
F
frodo Offline OP
Member
hi,
thats what i thought but i have to admit that i have seen a lot of homes that do not meet these requirements.

as far as finished basements goes, i have a client who wants to install a ceiling in his partially finished basement. they are apparently turning the place into an apartment for JUNIOR.

there are already several 12/2 and 14/2 strung all over the face of the floor joist at right angles.

since the client indicated that the cieling is going to be finished out then i am wondering if it is still required to bore holes?


as far as attics go, usually home runs and short jumpers are run across the top of cieling joist at angles to save time etc., but it seems to violate the 7 foot rule...i suppose as long as the cables are a minimum of 6 feet from the scuttle hole then that is acceptable...

given a partially finished attic that has been floored, and has a doorway or a perm. stairway, then 7 foot would seem to be the minimum.

so if you have a finished or partially finished attic then NO cables should be pulled accross the tops of cielng joist at all, because you can not assume that the homeowner will not expand or exceed the initial storage space by putting to much junk up there...

i am probably guilty of violating this rule a time or two.

it appears that the rule is for protection of the cable and not for safety.

thanks for the input

-regards

frodo

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 270
E
Member
Here in Oregon it seems every house is truss roofed and no body would want to drill the bottom 2X4 member of the trusses. I guess the best thing would be to route the home runs in some orderly fashion so that future remodeling would have an option to somehow box in the home run area.
Just one further comment, Frodo, cable safety is personnel safety. Course, if we had AFCI's on all circuits we wouldn't have to worry about burning the house down, would we? [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Elzappr (edited 01-12-2002).]


Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
 
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Vlado
Vlado
Croatia
Posts: 28
Joined: February 2011
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 4
Popular Topics(Views)
302,772 Are you busy
231,979 Re: Forum
216,703 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5