ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Undersized Neutral

Service Call today:

Typical bad neutral symptoms. While checking connections in the old 60A fuse-box, I noticed that the neutral (grounded conductor) was only a #10 (nickle coated copper)!

A year ago, I could've opened the meter can, remove the meter, replaced the "noodle", replace the meter, call WV Power (after the fact) and have a happy customer... Now it will be a service upgrade to 100A, miniumum, with requisite inspection (read-$$$).

Typical 30A Edison fuses on #14 wire too... Probably will need a circuit or two added...

The old wire is in relatively good shape.

Didn't have my camera, the meter is about 9 feet off the ground!

Told her to have the PoCo check their connections too, and I'd get back to her with an estimate on the service change.

A #10 Neutral on a 60A Service... I've seen it all now...

I hope all the 120V loads were well-balanced! Or did someone figure that the neutrsl would help keep the system warm in winter??!

By the way, what exactly is a noodle?

Small neutrals are pretty common around here for older services. A lot of the older houses which are K&T have #10 for the service entrance conductors and even some older 100A services have a #6 or even an #8 for a neutral. I guess they didn't put much emphasis on correct sizing of wire back then.

""sparky66wv-A #10 Neutral on a 60A Service... I've seen it all now...""
Well just keep livin' and I'm sure you'll see a lot more!

Pauluk- a "noodle" is a neutral. Just a common slang word around here.

glenn

Sorry, Pauluk, A "noodle" is Sparky's (Steve's) nickname for the neutral...

Oh, Glenn beat me to it! (by a minute)

They called this morning, now they're TV has died... (I had warned them of appliances dying until this was fixed).

Looks like I'll be squeezing in a service change this week...



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 09-23-2001).]

the reality is often that the owners have no conception of the degree of decay and/or discombobulation that their electrical service is really in.

Virgil, don't you have something @ your site about this ? Do you refer people as to gain an 'educated customer"??

This particular customer is reasonably educated in that the missus used to work on F-4's in the airforce... she was talking about #18 wire on 5A breakers... she understood everything that I told her, I believe, even the part about series circuits and the damage they can cause to appliances.

Didn't stop them from losing their TV though...

As far as referring to the Website, my URL is printed on my business cards and invoices. If they are web savvy enough to be curious about it, they will come... otherwise it'd be hard to drag them there!


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 10-15-2001).]

PoCo shows up there today, found a corroded Compession fitting on the noodle above the drip loop of the drop ("point of connection" according to the PoCo). They've had no more flickering, but still want the upgrade. Educated indeed! And they want it ASAP too even though "the problem has went away"...

I wish all my dealings with customers were this simple!

Seems that the liability for the damaged equipment now lies with the PoCo. Right? After all it was their connection that went bad. The PoCo here will usually pick up the tab for damaged goods like that. May be worth a call to the claims dept of the PoCo. The PoCo's will not readily make it known that they do this or else they would have claims out the wazoo. CAn't hurt to try.

glenn

Yep... The Customer is already filling out the claims forms.

But thanks for the advice anyway...

(Heck I thought they were "above" any reproach...)

The PoCo is denying that any work was performed, they apparently are going to fight this tooth and nail...

The customer is in possesion of the new compression fitting that was "never installed" (because replacing it would be admitting fault!)

Here's a photo of said fitting: