ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area California certification - Day One.

Reno we gotta be carefull here, as the DAS in our State is very particular in what they will accept. Essentialy if they are not getting some sort of "Contribution" (MONEY) to the DAS coffers from an organization they won't be acceptable.....

Sandsnow, I did not know that about Community Colleges affiliation being required... I know the Colleges had some heavy gripes over the last few years with this law. (Some of thier meeting minutes were all over the internet a while back - interesting reading.)

Does that mean that my crew men who are not certified can take the required ET courses at Rancho or Cerritos? Or are only the apprenticeship classes offered? Are either/both offered to union and non-union employees? (I've called one or two CCs and have found it nearly impossible to get a straight story).

What's the difference between the two courses of study, ET and apprentice? What would be the advantage of having them take ET classes vs. apprenticeship classes?

Thanks!

From what I have been told, both the JATC and ABC in OC are approved for ET classes. I don't know any more about the JATC classes, but ABC offers classes to anyone. There is a different price for members and non-members (if you work for a member contractor).

In either situation you don't take classes from the CC, you take them from the JATC or ABC. The CC is more like sponsor to the JATC or ABC.

To take apprenticeship classes, your crew would have to apply, be accepted and then would not be working for you.

To keep them legal, they would need to enroll in ET classes.

There's a loophole in the rules in that if you try to enroll and there are no classes available, you are exempt from certification until such time as classes open up. There is paper work to be filed.

Same loophole if you live more than a certain mile radius from the closest classes.

I was under the (wrong) impression that the college courses were an alternative to JATC or ABC classes.
Thanks, Sandsnow for the true skinny. Finding this info out should be a breeze and be READILY available someplace but it's not (and I've been looking for it).
This could become problematic. If a guy or gal doesn't know where to go for the CEUs, how will they find out.
The whole thing's got to be understandable by the dimmest sheep in the flock.

Even for the [yogi]'smarter than the average'[/yogi] sheep we are it seems to be a problem....

I generally catch on pretty quick but I'm still not getting how the program works. I hope you'll bear with me - I can't seem to find this info anywhere else.


WECA also told me that their courses were approved but they offer only a few clases in the OC. They mainly work in San Diego and Sac'to. Is there place to check to see if a particular course is approved?


That squares with what they told me.


I was told that this used to be so, but no longer is. The ABC lady told me I had to join if I wanted my crew to enroll in their classes, and brother it ain't cheap. WECA had no such requirement (but we're not through the enrollment process yet, either).


Which would explain why, when you call a CC, no one has any idea of what you're talking about. I get it.


I don't understand what you are saying here. Why wouldn't they be working for me?


At the same time as they are taking the apprenticeship classes? Or are apprenticeship classes available only to union members? (Don't care if they are, just want to know).


Not a prob in the OC; both WECA and ABC told me that they are having trouble filling their classes. I find this astounding, given the number of people working as electricians in the county, and the relatively low percentage of certified electricians.

I had thought we were late coming in, but it looks as though we may actually be early-adopters.

have you checked this out? http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ECU_FAQ.htm#PageTop

You should be asking the provider if a class is approved. e57 published a link to a list of approved schools.

If a person enrolls in an apprenticeship program they go where they are dispatched. If you were to join either org. then they could be working for you.

Both ABC and JATC offer apprenticeship classes. An apprentice does not have to be certified but he does have to work under a certified electrician.

I don't know about WECA, ABC So Cal is turning people away from their trainee classes because they are full.

You're darn tootin' we are! My card is expired since June - I took the test 3 1/2 years ago!!!!!!

The difference (or one of the main ones) in an "Apprentice" and "Electrician Trainee" (APP and ET for short) is that an apprentice will be dispatched by thier training organization to various employers. The idea is for them to "experiance various working environments" under various employers... And you, as an EC get to "Contribute" in $$$$ to the organization that trains them, who in turn "Contribute" that money (Less mark-up of course) to the DAS coffers....

An ET is YOUR employee who is attending classes, and is registered with the DAS in order to work "by law" if you can call it that.... As it is your employees education, he/she is can do it totaly on thier own accord. A former employer of mine was gracious enough to pay half for a former underling of mine last year, a dicission I think she was regretting, and allowed him to get off early a few days a week to spend two hours in traffic to go to Hayward 60 miles away for his classes. (Our shop was two blocks away from the the JATC that this guy lived not far from that has a 5 year *+ waiting list! That you can now attend through Foothill College as an ET.)

But really, it is the DAS that is too late in all this. They should have sorted out all this crap years ago, and stream lined the whole process. Something I believe they are purposely reluctant to do. I don't think they want to bring any more attention to themselves by having EVERY electrician on thier backs, they have enough problems trying to deal with the 1/2 population that they have now. I have been to thier offices here in SF, I have talked to a few on the phone, and even attended some of thier early meetings that they were so house proud about. I'll tell you that now, they are just frightened blind pilots of a machine they have little or no understanding of. Even though it is a machine they built, or should I say half built and trying to fly.

Call thier offices directly, and get a "Person" on the phone, they'll try to put you off to the web site for information - but push it... They don't even know what it says on that site of thiers half the time, and can clarify little else past what it says, or tell you where this death ride is headed - because they just don't know.....
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/das_offices.htm



[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 01-13-2007).]

The program is disorganized, but I'm a pragmatist.

I'm all for anything that makes a member of my crew a better electrician and helps to improve his life. I've had several go on to start their own businesses and they did so with both my encouragement and my blessing. I'm paying 1/2 for the ET classes, and I believe it's going to be money well spent.

There are two advantages to helping my crew get ahead like this. The first is that with additional training each man will do better work in the name of my company. The second is that if I were to become ill or find myself in a jam, I could have 5 crews taking care of my workload tomorrow, at cost, with little more required than a phone call.

Life is good.

[This message has been edited by stevecheyenne (edited 01-14-2007).]