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What would you expect? #608
02/13/01 01:16 AM
02/13/01 01:16 AM
sparky66wv  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
A 20A 2 pole breaker has a load of 40 Amps line to ground on one side only. What amount of time should the breaker trip at twice it's rated load?

Several seconds is expected to reduce nuisance tripping on motor-start-up loads, but what would be considered extreme on the high end?

How fast would a 20A fuse blow under 40 Amps?

A time delay 20A fuse under 40 Amps?

At what percentage should a breaker trip within one minute? 120%? 150%? 200%?

Is there any info out there that may give me the data of what UL expects from a breaker or fuse?


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: What would you expect? #609
02/13/01 10:59 AM
02/13/01 10:59 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Sparky,
You need to find the time-current curve for the device that you are using. The only one that I could find this morning for a 15 amp FRN-R fuse. It shows that this fuse will hold on average for 90 seconds at 20 amps, 30 seconds at 30 amps, and 2 seconds at 60 amps.
Other fuses and breakers will have different curves.
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: What would you expect? #610
02/13/01 11:57 AM
02/13/01 11:57 AM
sparky66wv  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
I guess what I'm after are time current curves for:

FPE 2 pole 20 A
FPE 1 Pole 20 A (If it differs)
GE 2 Pole 20 A
SQD 2 Pole 20 A

If the hard data already exists, it will save me a lot of time. I've got the data from my own experiments, but I have a rather "noisy" lab.

I'll let you guys know what I found out, but I want to know your opinions (and any hard data you may know of) first.

You may be surprised!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 02-13-2001).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Re: What would you expect? #611
02/13/01 04:54 PM
02/13/01 04:54 PM
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
I looked at a curve for a SQ D 2 pole 50 & it shows a one minute trip at about 130%.

As Don pointed out, each breaker by each manufacturer will have it's own trip curve. You could probably contact UL to find out what they expect, but they would probably have to sell you the standard & they're usually expensive.


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Re: What would you expect? #612
02/23/01 02:53 PM
02/23/01 02:53 PM
sparky66wv  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
In a nutshell... here are the results of my, uh..."tests"...

Single Pole 20A Breakers FPE on a 40A load to ground tripped between 38 and 74 seconds.

Double pole 20A Breakers FPE on a 40A load to ground tripped between 45 seconds and well over one minute (90+ sec). One breaker failed to trip after two minutes at 200% load. The 30 Amp SQ D Breaker upstream tripped instead, within 2 minutes at 150% load.

A SQ D 20A Breaker 2 Pole tripped within 20 seconds at 40A.

The 20 Amp breakers were the only ones I could test "safely". I had no idea it would take 200% to trip them in less than a couple of minutes. You should have seen me trying to find every high current device in the house to get these things to trip. Toasters, Coffee Pots, Blow Dryers, Heat Guns, Shop Vacs, etc. etc. Scared the cats...

I had it on two GFCI 20A receptacles. But even the #12 feeding them didn't get terribly warm, at double their "rated" current.

By the way, my wife is a nurse and is here when I do these crazy things... Wait 'til I get my Tesla Coil up and running!


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Re: What would you expect? #613
02/23/01 07:53 PM
02/23/01 07:53 PM
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
'66

I'd like to be the first to congradulate you on getting any FPE breaker to trip under any condition. [Linked Image] I've met quite a few electricians who feel that an FPE breaker that trips out is in the realm of an urban legend.

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 02-23-2001).]


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Re: What would you expect? #614
02/23/01 08:59 PM
02/23/01 08:59 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,903
NY, USA
'66

You must be in the Smoky Mountains?

[Linked Image]
(Joke)

Bill

Re: What would you expect? #615
07/01/01 06:46 AM
07/01/01 06:46 AM
C
C.Urch  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36
Kill Devil Hills, NC USA
I've cut live wires in two during remodels( by accident of course [Linked Image])frying my Kleins only to have a 20 Amp stab-lok breaker laugh in my face.

Re: What would you expect? #616
07/01/01 08:56 AM
07/01/01 08:56 AM
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Look here for more! www.stargroup.com

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 10-06-2001).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: What would you expect? #617
07/01/01 09:19 AM
07/01/01 09:19 AM
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
www.joetedesco.com

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 04-26-2003).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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