ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Leaving the rough live.

This is an easy one.Tell the GC you've had trouble in the past w/ the 'zip-equipped' rockers and you WILL charge for any re-hab to hacked wires.Then do it.

I used to work with this one guy who used to bring along a gas powered chain saw to the job. He used to use it to cut very large ( We are talking 36" square here") quick holes in the completed walls wherever the roto zippers cut our romex. Pretty soon the drywall guy's were back to using drywall knives, pencil, measuring tape, and a T- square for layout.

Well,
I guess that we've found a new level of stupidity.
Personally, if I found someone on a job site doing that sort of thing, we'd both have to go to hospital to get my foot out of thier back-side!.
I'm reminded of a case here a few years back, where a Builder fell from the balcony of a 2 storey home during it's construction, merely because he moved some loose lighting wires that were in his way.
The Electrician responible for the work was sentenced to 5 years in prison.
The builder never worked again and he is in a wheel-chair.
Obviously, personal initiative has to come into this somewhere, I mean who in thier right mind would leave live wires just hanging there?!!.
GFI or no GFI, I'm glad this doesn't happen a lot.
This is just rediculous.

I'm gonna pass this on to that PM, as I think its time she RE-thought this issue. She's been at this for at least 20+ years, just makes you wonder.....

Anyway, back when I started the trade, or the construction aspect of it at least, my time in the service was much different work. I thought of putting some sort of alarm on the rough. Ya know, a few relays on say a door bell transformer, or maybe an ear piercing siren, that would go off if you cut or shorted any wiring. Never did it! Would be a cool inventive item though. Thought of electrifying my bike and car to keep thiefs at bay. Still do at times.... But not kill any schmuck on the job. Normally, I don't even land the panel until finish. Or like I said, some temp power, or lights. And for that you had better be nice to me.

The thought that anyone would follow directions from what appears to be a certifed idiot, is beyond belief, and sheet rockers damage, well that repair work should be covered in the contract, let them tear up all your work, then direct their attention to the clause that states all repairs to damaged work will be prepaid, we did some damage to plumbing work and found we had to prepay to get the work done, none of this silly charge back, which ends up never getting paid.

Hey e57 that's not a bad idea at all a little low voltage circuit on the Romex that pulls in a NC 120V contact on a relay connected to a loud siren at the pnl. But it wouldn't work very well for taps on the circuit.

On a similar note to the above methods of getting the point across to other trades:

Some years ago, doing an install of cinema sound systems. Needed the observation port glass left out so I could install the emitter panels for the Assisted listening system. (IR headsets)

Meeting with PM and glass guy, agreed that right after lunch I would install panels (about 5 minutes each, 8 total units) with glass installed right behind me. No problem, right?

Return from lunch to find ALL eight ports installed (crappy frame spec, glass is supposed to be easily removable for cleaning. These were RIVETED together!) Called PM, who was also surprised. Called glass guy who had left site, he gave us both "too bad, deal with it" attitude.

Went to truck, returned with sledge hammer, I removed all eight glass myself! Told PM to send me a bill for replacement glass and labor. Never did get charged.

Too bad this guy was such a horse's patoot, all other trades on that install were very pleasant and easy to coordinate with. And this was really the only bad apple in the 20+ years I've been doing this.

I have learned that the other trades are more willing to cooperate if you approach them with the angle of "Here's what I'll be doing/needing, just want to get together to make sure I don't hold you up." Surprisingly, with that approach, except for the glass guy above, I've never had problems with other trades on any installs. In fact they usually do me favors with no static! (An occasional cold six-pack does wonders too!)

Most of my work requires coordination with electrical, HVAC(Xenon lamphouse exhaust), sheetrock, paint, flooring(to get the heavy stuff placed wihout damage), and glass.

As for leaving the rough live, totally stupid and uncalled for.

While some people will never learn, I would like to think my approach would prevent the vindictive destruction of my wiring/work.

Amazing how two different ways of asking the same question/making the same point will get totally different results.

One thing not mentioned - what happens when the trades are not there and the owner(s) show up to look at the progress. They are the ones who will be the least-knowledgable of the dangers to these live wires hanging out all over the place.

Also, don't forget those meddling kids who love showing up at construction sites to have a look. Guess who get's sued?

Eric
NJ

Like everyone else we've had that happen to us. My boss was very calm as he took his hammer and made an opening large enough to repair or repull the affected cable. This was always covered as SOP in our contracts. When the rockers came back they raised hell but made the repairs. It was actually kinda' fun watching him swing away at the newly rocked walls!
Bill

Just for clarification, BOSS (Owner) is not into the practice, I have worked for this guy for some time, and if it means the slightest liability, he'll have nothing to do with it. Boss/PM/etc., is the one I was debating with, she's only been with the company about <two years, and brought a few people with her, who apparently have been leaving stuff live.

As for damage, I don't land anything most times, protect my stuff well where required, and document line diagrams and general path during rough. And if anything get trashed after I leave, I have an array of tracers, TDR, and other methods of finding stuff, which also involves a hammer.

Carpenters used 16's on shear once. I located the short, got a witness, bashed the rock, pulled the nail, and laid out for demo for the repair to my cable. Simular situation for a plumber who did some changes after I left, bashed it open, to expose where he had set the wire on fire. Rockers almost never hit my stuff, all of the conductors entering are tucked way back in the corners of large boxes, only time I have a problem is if the bury it, and I find that too. You trash my work, I will find it. I am that confident! I double check all work, and walk every circuit before I leave, I don't test it either. If it don't work when I come back, I either forgot a cable, (Twice in ten years I think) and it my fault, or some one did something, and I'll spend all day looking, and someone will pay when I do. I can be a premadonna about it.... And proud of it.

Oh, that job is dead except for temp power at the bath GFI's now.