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#4520 09/29/01 04:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
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Look here for some suggestions on electrical wiring.
http://urbanideas.com/



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 02-08-2003).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
#4521 09/29/01 05:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Quote
“You use the cold pipe because it goes directly outside into the ground,” Mike says.

Oh, well. Some people never learn.
The misinformation just goes on and on...

#4522 09/29/01 05:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
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Member
The use of a water pipe as a grounding electrode was outlawed by the IEE here as far back as the 1966 edition due to the increasing use of plastic pipes and couplings. Even the 1955 notes state that caution should be used and to check.

#4523 09/29/01 06:14 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
Yes, but my point is that the current needs to get to the EGC, into the service panel, and onto the GC back to the xfrmr. Getting to the earth outside the window is not what grounding is all about.

Ya do th'hokey-pokey and ya turn yerself aroun'...

#4524 09/29/01 06:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 3
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Quote
(GFI's)They are designed to trip (shut off) as little as 240 milliamps of voltage in 0.025 seconds.

That number (240ma) is way high! (60 times!)

On the subject of the DIY avice: One of my peeves is that too many people tend to over-simplify things to the point where just about anyone thinks that they can do anything without a second thought. I'm sure that it causes many a dangerous situation.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 09-29-2001).]


Bill
#4525 09/29/01 06:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
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Quote
Originally posted by Dspark:
Yes, but my point is that the current needs to get to the EGC, into the service panel, and onto the GC back to the xfrmr. Getting to the earth outside the window is not what grounding is all about.
Ah... Our different grounding systems again! I guess if the pipe used to ground a receptacle was properly bonded to the N-G busbar it would be OK, but it seems kind of tacky. And someone might come along later and cut out part of that pipe and insert a plastic coupling.

Ya do th'hokey-pokey and ya turn yerself aroun'...
"Hokey-cokey" here, for anyone who's remotely interested!

Bill:
I see these over-simplified explanations here regularly. I'm always saying to myself, "Ah, yes, but..."

#4526 09/29/01 07:50 PM
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Anonymous
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So now milliamps measure voltage??

Leak 250 milliseconds of 240 milliamps of voltage and the breaker will stumble and fall (trip).

#4527 09/29/01 08:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 3
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oops,

I missed the Voltage part [Linked Image]
Voltage and Current get mixed up a lot from what I see. The time factor is probably off too. I think I've heard 1/10th second response time. Does anyone know?


Bill
#4528 09/29/01 09:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
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Member
I wish there was a way to get these jerks out of the electrical business. Ignorance gets it's own reward.


ed
#4529 09/30/01 11:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
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Member
I've sometimes heard the "experts" in big DIY stores giving bad advice to customers. If it's something that could be dangerous, I'll step in and try to straighten it out.

Whether they'll take notice or not, I don't know, but at least I tried.

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