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#34445 02/11/04 09:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 524
Member
..About 2yrs ago,we installed a Jacuzzi outdoors...I came off a sub-panel in the basement,ran the lines to the tub in pvc,and provided 60a. pull-out disconnect for emergencies...and a 2-pole 50a. GFI breaker for overcurrent protection..I also ran the #8 solid bonding wire from the motor ground lug to the sub-panel,as well as my equipment ground..The total run is about 50-60'....Now,about 2 yrs later,the H.O. is calling me,saying the GFI brkr intermittently trips...can this be from the motor cycling on and off,or does my "redundant" ground..the bonding wire have something to do with it..??? Everything was fine until this summer,when he 1st called and told me about this...Could it be the Jacuzzi heater,or..??It doesn't make sense to me because it's intermittent...???? Any ideas???
AR


.."if it ain't fixed,don't break it...call a Licensed Electrician"
#34446 02/12/04 12:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
M
Member
Attic Rat,
I have had to replace a two pole 50 amp gfi breaker for a hot tub myself, after the poco had a well documented outage and resultant surge. After the owner found out about the high cost of replacing a double pole gfi breaker, we talked next about whole house surge protection. I know you know this but you did not need to continue the bonding conductor into the subpanel.
macmikeman.

#34447 02/12/04 12:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
E
Member
I don't quite understand your redundant grounds, but if they're just parallel, there shouldn't be any problems with that. My first guess would be a bad breaker. My second guess would be an actual ground fault problem in the hot tub. I've seen hyper sensitive GFCI breakers more several times, so I'd replace that first.

#34448 02/12/04 12:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 524
Member
... Yeah, Electric Eagle,..I think it's the breaker as well...It's a Square D,and I know they have a fast trip rate...As for the grounds tho'..yes, they're parallel,and I realized that I didn't have to go all the way to the panel with the bonding conductor,but I did it anyway, as a surety against a "gawd forbid" lightening strike,or something...(I don't want any lawsuits)...I'll change out the GFI breaker, and see what developes..All my wiring is sound,..I used #6 THHN in the pipe,and brought in a #12 THHN E.G...Thats where I flubbed..it should've been a #10,but I compensated with the #8 solid,..no?? Thats why I ran it all the way to the sub-panel..Should I try and pull out the #12,and run a #10..as difficult as that may be..I want to do it right... [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
AR

[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 02-11-2004).]


.."if it ain't fixed,don't break it...call a Licensed Electrician"
#34449 02/12/04 11:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
A
Member
Besides a new GFI Breaker look for any moisture problems like in the disconect.

Tom

#34450 02/13/04 10:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 179
D
Member
AR; I hooked one up and when the tub was turned on the GFI tripped (every time though).Cust. now thinks he's hired an idiot;but taking the leads off the heater cured the trip. It was a used unit,so maybe they they damaged it in transit.(They swore it worked when they bought it)

#34451 02/14/04 01:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
Member
AR
The 8 AWG solid wire is not for grounding, and should not go back to the panel. It is for bonding purposes, expressly to protect against voltage gradient by creating an 'equipotential bonding grid'. The purpose is to keep all of the area around the spa or hottub at the same potential.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
#34452 02/14/04 09:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 524
Member
.. I got ya Pierre,..where should I land the #8 then,...from the motor lug to the outdoor disconnect chassis..? and should I rip out ..if I can, the #12 E.G. I currently have in the pipe,and replace it with #10...it'd be a pain in the neck, but as I said I want to do it correctly..
AR


.."if it ain't fixed,don't break it...call a Licensed Electrician"
#34453 02/14/04 01:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
Member
AR
I am glad to see that you are willing to go back and change what may be a mistake. I do not like to give specific instructions online for a job I cannot see. Here is what I will do.
Size the insulated equipment grounding conductor based on the overcurrent device to table 250.122
If the existing bonding conductor you have is insulated, you may be able to use that as an 'oversized' equipment grounding conductor.
680.42 refers one back to 680.26 for bonding of the outdoor hottub. Follow those requirements and you should be good to go.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
#34454 02/15/04 07:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 524
Member
...Thanx Pierre,
I'll go ahead and re-do it...as per 680.26
for my own peace of mind.. [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
AR


.."if it ain't fixed,don't break it...call a Licensed Electrician"

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