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#2885 07/30/01 10:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 60
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It was UL listed. They were very pretty when the lid was closed, however...

I'll only install UL listed devices, (that are listed for the purpose)... but I won't fall for the idea that UL equals OK...

Besides... the 1875W hair dryers with 15A plugs are UL listed... Need I say more?
[/B][/QUOTE]

You mean that they carry a UL label. There are a lot of import knockoffs out there carrying bogus UL labels. I worked in the import business for awhile, and it's common place for a Chinese factory to copy a product exactly, right down to the counterfeit UL label. I even saw a coworker take a FCC type approval number and have it put on cheap knock off telephones so that they could be imported.

BTW I back wire 15 amp general purpose outlets in residential settings. Yes I am in one of those tight competitive markets. Time is indeed money here.

Incidentally I have never seen one fail, or at least never identified the push in as the problem. I have taken many old ones out, to change the color or because the plastic by the ground chipped off and they are a pain to get off. I like to use a romex staple and release the wire, rather than cut them as most old work has really short wires in there.

#2886 07/31/01 06:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 1
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Oooooo---Kkkkaaaayyyy...

Guess I'll start backplugging then...

And I'll just finger tighten wire nuts instead of "wrenching" them...

And stop running EGC's in conduit...

And only have one circuit for all the bathrooms in a house...

And stop using antioxidant...

And no antishort bushings on AC either...(or was that MC that didn't require them?)

Oh yeah, and a sconce light in a shower space with a switch next to the tub to control it...

Let's see, what else can I get away with that common sense tells me otherwise?

Hey it's legal!

[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-31-2001).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
#2887 07/31/01 07:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
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Member
The whole purpose of this forum is to become better electricians. If we learn of a better way to do something, that's good. If, however we become subject to ridicule and sarcasm, it becomes difficult to ask questions or answer opinion polls honestly, our community loses. It is humbling to ask questions of our peers, however, we all have something to learn from each other.

BTW, I will probably continue to push-in low wattage switch loops. But I will think twice about a sconce in the shower. :P

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 07-31-2001).]

#2888 07/31/01 07:47 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
(I think 1875 W @ 125 V nameplate just passes muster for 15 A.)

Backstabbing takes less volume in the box and when that matters, I also occasionally backstab the line in light switches only when daisychaining. If I ever learn of one going bad, I'm sure I'll give them up altogether. I would really prefer a pre-made octopus (or star without a wirenut) for distributing power to multiple devices in a box.

I have seen a lot of bad backstabs in receptacles. Whether they were originally tight, I cannot say, since they weren't my work. But I don't trust them. My rule with the switches is that if it doesn't bite on the first try, I consider it defective and grab another switch or use the screw and a pigtail instead if I can make it fit.

I like the way the GFCIs connect because no wire bending is needed. However, I think they could do better by fixing one contact in place somehow or spring loading it to open. Sometimes the gap doesn't open correctly to receive the wire.

I also like the way the stripped part of the conductor is protected. I look forward to the day when there are just recessed set screws on the sides like on circuit breakers. Ever wrap your hand around an energized receptacle?

#2889 07/31/01 10:04 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 16
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Member
In reply to your "speed wiring the outlets",
I am in favor of them being banned. They should make all recptacles like the Aluminum
wiring device type, which have only screws on the side and thats it, or the kind where you have to tighten the screws onto the wires. I've seen too many go Bad with the push in the back type. As far as speed is concerned how much time are you really saving. Speed may be a small factor, but I would bank on the guy who takes 30 seconds longer and goes around the screws that that is the Professional way to go. I think we have to admire our work, and not think HOW FAST can I do it! Thanks- Steve T.

#2890 07/31/01 10:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 1
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I was merely trying to make a point...

Pardon if it offended anyone...

My point being that we must use good common sense, that blindly going out and doing things at code minimum for the sake of speed is not professional in my opinion...

There are many examples in code such that I have mentioned that allow for such mediocrity, but I for one will not back-stab, nor any of the other bad habits that I mentioned.


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
#2891 07/31/01 11:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
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In all fairness I think I've seen as many loose screws on receptacles as loose back-stabs. And I've also seen many "Industrial Grade" Devices that failed because they were poorly installed. I will admit to ocassionally using them also, but not as a rule, and have never seen a problem with any I've done.


Does anyone have any evidence that these are bad news or just hearsay?

Bill


Bill
#2892 07/31/01 11:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 60
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Member
Quote
Originally posted by STEVE:
In reply to your "speed wiring the outlets",
As far as speed is concerned how much time are you really saving. Speed may be a small factor, but I would bank on the guy who takes 30 seconds longer and goes around the screws that that is the Professional way to go. I think we have to admire our work, and not think HOW FAST can I do it! Thanks- Steve T.


I really would like to wire every residential job like a commercial job, to the highest standards of the trade, but the reality is that home builders do not want to pay for quality. They want it done as cheaply and as quickly as you can legally do it. Quite frankly if someone is not going to pay me for it, I'm not going to do it. I've worked from some pretty competitive union shops, and seen a lot of corners cut.

Now I'm in business for myself and I understand why they do it. Unfortunately this is the state of this trade at here anyway. I'm competing with over 700 licensees in my county as well as every handyman and DIY. If I don't backstab it someone else will.

#2893 07/31/01 11:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 1
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Go Here and pay special notice to "sparky's" comment...

Quote
(I think 1875 W @ 125 V nameplate just passes muster for 15 A.)

Anything designed for a 15A receptacle should not draw more than 1440W...i.e. 80% of OCPD and wire ampacity... Are hairdryers exempt?


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
#2894 07/31/01 11:55 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
>Anything designed for a 15A receptacle should not draw more than 1440W...

We had this discussion before and we agreed that they should have twenty amp plugs... and extension cords should not be less than 12 AWG Cu.

There are lots of extensions that turn a 15 A receptacle into three, six, or even seven receptacles. It would be easy to get 20 A on one of those. Amplifiers for a band come to mind.

I have one right here: Computer grade surge suppressor, Input: 115 V, 15 amp max, Output: 115 V, 15 amp max.
It's a "temporary power tap / TVSS" - says so right on it.

>Are hairdryers exempt?
Yes. They are not continuous loads, they are always attended while operating for no more than a few minutes per day, and they are unplugged and put away after each and every use.

Hmmm, come to think of it, most of them are not really exempt. Except when used according to the manufacturer's instructions...

Perhaps someone has one of those monsters and wouldn't mind testing the actual amps drawn while running. I would be interested to know the actual amps and volts of a running 1875 W blow dryer.

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