ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area NEC Compliance = "Troublemaker"

Therein lies the problem Sparky. Look at any of these discussion boards, and you'll see half of the electricians b**ching about lack of code compliance, and the other half b**ching because some inspector wants them to follow the code. And, of course there's always the contractor who wants his competition to follow the absolute letter of the code while he gets a free pass to ignore it. Toss in local political subdivisions who adopt "Rehab Codes" that water down the code and (in my opinion) workmanship, as well as hiring the local precinct committeeman's cousin as the electrical inspector, and you've got a pretty good idea of the climate in our trade these days. Is there a good answer for these problems? I don't know. That's what I come here for. I do know this, those of us who are truly concerned with safety and quality workmanship need to stick to our guns before the trade goes completely to hell.

How about this situation. Our area had no real electrical inspector a year ago. The building inspector did everything. Two of us were hired. I have been trained and certified to IAEI standards. The other inspector is a contractor. I view the codes from the point of an inspector. I cite the code sections as often as time allows in my red tags so the contractor can see I'm not making this stuff up. I believe that I'm firm but fair; I don't feel that I have to find something wrong at an inspection. But I do feel that we all read from the same book. The other inspector while diligent, I believe, tends to look at things as an inspector, but also, from a contractor working in the area. Rumor is that the builders don't like me. That only bothers me that I'm the only stalwart to maintain the quality of work that is installed. I've been told that all you can do is your job, the best you can. Be fair, and equal.

Thee EC's and inspectors who have posted their opinions on this thread should remember a previous posting of mine. To wit:
The NFPA is not legally responsible for any errors or omissions that may cause unsafe installations.
The inspectors, and their municipalities, are not legally liable for misinterpretations or misapplications of the NEC that may result in unsafe installations. (Check the ordinance where they accepted the NEC).
Who is legally liable? You are my friend. The EC bears the ultimate responsibility to provide a safe installation.
If a component of the electrical system is defective when installed and causes property loss or personal injury, you are responsible because as the expert "You should have known". Remember, YOU are the expert.
Rowdy

But, remember this Rowdy, your best bet to limit your liability, if not eliminate it altogether, is to obtain permits and get inspections. Take a guess at what happens on a job, even if you've done everything correct, but have no permit or inspections. You're automatically at fault, and somebody else's name is going to be on the sides of your trucks by the time you finish paying for it. I'm not saying it's a perfect world or that the code is a perfect document, only that it's what we have and as far as codes go, it's far and away the best. And, to take it a step further, electricians, as a whole, are generally more knowledgeable about our code than any other trade. Look, I was a contractor once too. I know it's tough out there. All I'm saying is that electricians and inspectors are ultimately working for the same goal, which is a safe installation. If we hope to reach that goal, we need to work together, not against each other.

I would agree that all involved should work together for a safe installation. I also believe that if I have no liability for my actions, I will behave in a quite different manner than if I am responsible for any action that I undertake. It is my belief that if the NFPA is going to produce a code and municipalities are going to accept that code and hire inspectors to be enforcers, then they should not have blanket immunity for any improper actions. The major problem is that the inspectors know they have this immunity and many abuse the system.
Rowdy

work together .....i'm the 'expert' eh?

all fine and well.....

i'll tell you what, in my office there are stacks of EC&M, Electrical Contractor, IAEI , Power Q , CEE rags.

show me where there is any electrical orginization publicly advocating a benchmark such as <gasp> licensure.

don't you find it odd that the beuarcracy(s) that make a living writing standards cannot extend this one morsel of acknowledgement as a standard for the trade?

Well Rowdy, I can't speak for the inspectors in your area, but as for my assistant inspectors and I, we don't consider ourselves as having any sort of immunity. Never have. We see our responsibility for a safe, code compliant installation the same now as we did when we had the tools on. Not only that, but the Building Department EXPECTS us to get it right when we do an inspection. Maybe I'm a little spoiled here in Michigan. We have state licensing, which requires continuing education credits for renewal. Inspectors must be at least a journeyman for two years (which means a minimum of 6 years in the trade) or a master. Continuing education credits are also required to maintain registration as an inspector. Does that mean we have a perfect system here, or that I'm a perfect inspector? Not by a long shot. Nobody does,or is, and I doubt any political subdivision ever will have a perfect system with perfect inspectors. Just the same as the NEC will never be a perfect code. There's no such animal. And don't forget, writing, changing, and interpreting the code is a way to make a living for those at the NFPA. Leave it the way it is or make it understandable for the masses, and they'd be out of work. Same with all of the people who work at those trade rags you talked about Sparky. Like I said earlier, I don't know what the answer is. I just know we have to do the best we can with what we've got and keep trying to make it better as we go along.