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Re: HVAC #211876
11/19/13 11:20 PM
11/19/13 11:20 PM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
You are running a feed a 20 amp 240 volt feed to air air condition compressor outside. You decide to run a 12-3 RX wire and install a weatherproof GFI receptacle across the red and black wire of that 12- RX wire and use the black and red wire for the HVAC. The receptacle is wired in before the disconnect, so that you can De-energize the AC and still have the recpt. hot.

Does this meet code? Yes? No, if not, code sections please.


Last edited by harold endean; 11/19/13 11:21 PM.
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Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211879
11/20/13 12:19 AM
11/20/13 12:19 AM
B
BigB  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 725
Tucson, AZ USA
I think you meant to say the GFCI is wired between the red and white, or the black and white, not the red and black.

Anyways this is an interesting qquestion and I am going to be watching this one.

Last edited by BigB; 11/20/13 12:22 AM.
Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211880
11/20/13 01:01 AM
11/20/13 01:01 AM
W
wire_twister  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 265
Georgia USA
I have contemplated doing this more than once, havent done it yet, too lazy to dig in the code for supporting articles. Like BigB said I will be watching this question.


Jimmy

Life is tough, Life is tougher when you are stupid
Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211883
11/20/13 03:47 AM
11/20/13 03:47 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,223
Estero,Fl,usa
It certainly sounds like an interesting idea but I am going to sharpen my pencil and start looking at that condenser label.
You might get away with it if you had a small mini split with a 10a or less FLA. (210.23(A)(2) and 440.34)


Greg Fretwell
Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211887
11/20/13 03:49 PM
11/20/13 03:49 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,965
Brick, NJ USA
Time to follow Greg & look thru the book. My gut is it could fly, as I can't put an Article on it right now.



John
Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211895
11/20/13 09:33 PM
11/20/13 09:33 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Sure! Why not? (Though there might be other issues if you put 240 volts across a 120v GFCI :D)

Ultimately, you're describing a sort of tap - though no additional overcurrent protection is needed, as you're within the ratings of the conductors all the way.

Or, are you? Any condenser that calls for a maximum 20 amp breaker is also going to allow the use of #14 wire. You're also going to need a disconnect downstream, in addition to the breaker in the panel

Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211896
11/20/13 09:37 PM
11/20/13 09:37 PM
J
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 792
Chicago, Il.
If it's not compliant, it should be. That sounds like the perfect service receptacle setup for maintenance.
Joe

Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211899
11/21/13 03:04 AM
11/21/13 03:04 AM
N
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 879
There is 210.63, but it prohibits the required receptacle being connected to the LOAD side of the disconnecting means, this is from the 2008 NEC.

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, airconditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
shall be located on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft)
of the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment.
The receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the
load side of the equipment disconnecting means.
Exception: A receptacle outlet shall not be required at oneand
two-family dwellings for the service of evaporative
coolers.

Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211904
11/21/13 11:59 AM
11/21/13 11:59 AM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 943
Chicago Illinois USA
Technically it works, but if the AHJ asks if the 2-pole breaker is intended, and UL Listed, to protect a line-to-neutral load you may have a tough time answering.
About half of the time that I have seen this type of installation it has been passed, and gigged the other half.

Also 210.23(A)(2) prohibiting receptacles on a circuit feeding 'fixed in place' equipment would come into play.

Besides...if it were that easy why would they sell disconnect switches that have a GFCI already installed in them?
Go to www.geindustrial.com and search for DET-382 to see the GE product; several other manufacturers have the same thing.

IMHO I would suggest that you run this question by the AHJ to make sure that you won't have to tear anything out and do it over.


Ghost307
Re: HVAC [Re: harold endean] #211905
11/21/13 04:20 PM
11/21/13 04:20 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,965
Brick, NJ USA
Yes, 210.23 (A)(2) would work.

Thanks Ghost307


John
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