ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Inspections and Testing
by HotLine1. 04/25/18 08:41 AM
FEMA height and electrical equiment.,
by HotLine1. 04/20/18 08:49 AM
This anti-theist is priceless!!!
by LongRunner. 04/19/18 04:02 PM
Recall notice: Square D Services Switches
by gfretwell. 04/18/18 01:24 PM
Big Square D service switch Recall
by sparkyinak. 04/18/18 12:30 AM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 14 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Feeds from two different Utilitys?? #211638
11/05/13 12:15 PM
11/05/13 12:15 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
Large Industrial site. Owner buys power at 13.8 Volts.
Services coming in close to 900 amps at 13.8.
Another Utility feeds the other half of the site 25KV
Both services are brought down to 480 volts in all areas.
(Also 4160 but N/A ).
Question code wise?
Can two 480 volt feeders ((each from different utility's)) (480 v with ground ( Feeders) be brought to a Transfer Switch ( Power Must keep on Control panels in case of extended outage)[They are already UPS backed up]. Generator is not practical in this application.
(Lot more to it then I can say at this time).
Both Sources are Owner Feeders remember.
Code References>?????
Thank You.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup] #211639
11/05/13 01:53 PM
11/05/13 01:53 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,199
Estero,Fl,usa
230.2(D) seems to apply

Quote
(D) Different Characteristics. Additional services shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases, or for different uses, such as for different rate schedules.


I can't think of any reason why this can not be used with transfer equipment. It is similar to an SDS.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: gfretwell] #211640
11/05/13 03:43 PM
11/05/13 03:43 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
I agree I feel its OK long as well marked in all locations.
I've stayed away from Article 230 (Services) cause I believe all the rules of Feeders apply (225-30).
[b]Thanks for your impute.

Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup] #211643
11/05/13 11:28 PM
11/05/13 11:28 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,199
Estero,Fl,usa
Services are very similar to feeders except there is not really any effective overcurrent protection.
They say a lot about "outside the building" and then wrote one of the most ambiguous lines in the NEC when they tell you where the disconnect must be when it gets into the building. wink


Greg Fretwell
Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup] #211648
11/06/13 10:40 PM
11/06/13 10:40 PM
HotLine1  Online Content

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,950
Brick, NJ USA
Yoop:

Yes,follow the feeder articles, and make sure it is all well marked.



John
Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup] #211652
11/07/13 02:59 AM
11/07/13 02:59 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,199
Estero,Fl,usa
Probably the most important sign is the one at each disconnect that tells the firemen and other professionals that there are 2 services and the location of the second disconnect.

Quote
230.2(E) Identification. Where a building or structure is supplied by more than one service, or any combination of branch circuits, feeders, and services, a permanent plaque or directory shall be installed at each service disconnect location denoting all other services, feeders, and branch circuits supplying that building or structure and the area served by each. See 225.37.

Handbook commentary
Section 230.2(E) states that where any combination of branch circuits, feeders, and services supplies power to a building or structure, a permanent plaque or directory must be installed at each service disconnect location to indicate where the other disconnects that feed the building are lo-cated, as illustrated in Exhibit 230.1. All the other services on or in the building or structure and the area served by each must be noted on the plaques or directories. The plaques or directories should be of sufficient durability to withstand the ambient environment. See the commentary following 225.37 for further information on identification of multiple supply sources to a building or structure.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup] #211653
11/07/13 10:49 AM
11/07/13 10:49 AM
HotLine1  Online Content

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,950
Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
Did you read the exception to 225.37 (Exception 1)?

From 2011 NEC


John
Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup] #211656
11/07/13 01:36 PM
11/07/13 01:36 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,199
Estero,Fl,usa
They seem to want to ignore those types of exceptions here. I guess they don't think we have that many qualified people wink

It will usually be the fire marshal who wants the signs.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup] #211657
11/07/13 04:20 PM
11/07/13 04:20 PM
HotLine1  Online Content

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,950
Brick, NJ USA
Curious IF Yoop would want to know that.
I picked it from '11, but I think it's been around for a while.

Agree on the need for the first responders to have it posted.

I still have generator jobs that fight over 702.8
Generac supplies a nice decal, but some have issues, as I think they don't look in the bag of instructions!


John
Re: Feeds from two different Utilitys?? [Re: Yoopersup] #211661
11/08/13 01:57 AM
11/08/13 01:57 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,199
Estero,Fl,usa
When it comes to safety related issues, the fire marshal is far more stringent than you get from the bare NEC. He is usually a fireman and they look out for their guys.
I do question most of those exceptions where they talk about "only qualified people" and "documented switching procedures" myself.

I really want to see it.


Greg Fretwell

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
watersparkfalls
watersparkfalls
Washington...Not DC
Posts: 222
Joined: March 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
245,928 Are you busy
182,996 Re: Forum
172,781 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.040s Queries: 15 (0.009s) Memory: 1.0134 MB (Peak: 1.1931 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-04-25 18:24:29 UTC