ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
12 Lead Motor Connection Weird
by emolatur - 01/19/22 02:40 PM
Any women electricians here?
by gfretwell - 01/17/22 01:44 PM
Well There's your problem.
by gfretwell - 01/08/22 12:17 AM
Happy New Year!!
by HotLine1 - 01/04/22 09:50 AM
Sangamo s309.2
by Robski - 12/31/21 04:54 PM
New in the Gallery:
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 14 guests, and 9 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#196323 09/26/10 09:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Can someone help me with a link to a site for the wire used for neon signs. More specifically GTO wire suitable for wet locations. Thanks


George Little
Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:
 

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep
 

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
L
Member
Are you looking for a source or a technical specification?

LarryC #196326 09/26/10 12:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,677
Likes: 9
G
Member
My original not was not very helpful
This is a better one.

http://www.paigeelectric.com/specs/980270%20Sleeveless%20III%203-1-10%20spec.pdf

Call or Email the folks at the bottom and I bet they can help you.


Greg Fretwell
gfretwell #196328 09/26/10 04:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Looking for technical specifications. Suitable for wet locations? UL Listed? Does it need physical protection? Can or must it be installed in a raceway? does it need a supplemental bonding conductor?


George Little
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,677
Likes: 9
G
Member
I poked around several sites and I am not really finding anyone who really says that in any definite form.
I bet if you send an Email to the Paige guys they will send you the information tho. These guys are usually pretty good about knowing their products.


Greg Fretwell
gfretwell #196331 09/26/10 07:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,288
Likes: 4
Member
George:
Reviewing the link Greg provided above, the majority of your questions are answered.

Physical protection protection is going to be your call, dependent on the specific install.

Raceway is not required by the mfg spec sheet (link), but agian, it may be your call, based on NEC Article 600.

Supplemental bonding conductor? Again that's going to be your call.

Neon (field installed) is a difficult animal for AHJs. There are a lot of details that are unique to the job, and I have a current NEC handy.

As Greg mentioned, I'll second the comment that the guys a Paige are great, as I used there local office/dist ctr here many times as an EC.







John
HotLine1 #196333 09/26/10 10:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Okay Greg and John, I just sent them an email asking for some documentation on whether or not it was Listed for use in a wet location. Their web site says it is moisture resistant but that's hardly the same. I'll let you guys and the BB know what happens.

Last edited by George Little; 09/26/10 10:42 PM. Reason: thumbs are too big

George Little
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,677
Likes: 9
G
Member
I did a bit of reading and the consensus is there are listed wet location assemblies. The parts have to be evaluated together similar to a fire rated wall. I bet Paige has some detail drawings of how to put their parts together in a wet location. The GTO itself seems to come in several varieties, some with an integral sleeve. The U/L marking guide says it will say that right on the jacket. I get the impression the problem is not the wire, it is the penetrations and terminations.


Greg Fretwell
gfretwell #196417 10/01/10 12:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Here's what I have so far:

"George:
I am sending to you either today or Monday the complete UL Standard
for Safety UL 814 that will answer all your questions concerning the use and
testing of listed GTO. As I told you on the phone, if you would like I
would be more than happy to do a 30 minute seminar on LED signs and the
proper wiring of such. Just need to have 2 weeks notice to set up the
travel."

Fretwell, was correct the GTO guy is very helpful. I'll have my answers soon and will report to this Board


George Little
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
This is what UL says:

Hi George,

GTO is not Listed for use in wet locations. See Gas Tube Sign Cable (ZJQX) located on page 446 in the White Book. GTO has to be used in Listed signs and in conduit/raceways. Inside a outdoor Listed sign would be considered a damp location. There is integrally sleeved GTO that has been UL Classified for use with specific neon boots or splice combinations that when used together can have a damp or wet location rating as identified on the Classification Mark. The product category is Sign Components Classified for use with Specified Equipment (UYTA), located on page 380 in the 2010 UL White Book. You may also find some of the cable and boot enclosure combinations made by the same manufacturer that may be suitable for wet or damp locations Listed under Sign Accessories (UYMR).

I hope that helps.

Best Regards,

Tom Lichtenstein
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Regulatory Services
Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
Northbrook, IL


George Little
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
BEAMEUP
BEAMEUP
WA
Posts: 27
Joined: December 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
NORCAL 3
Robski 1
Popular Topics(Views)
288,013 Are you busy
220,140 Re: Forum
206,133 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5