ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 5
Recent Posts
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by ghost307. 12/15/17 08:13 AM
2017 NEC Changes
by ghost307. 12/15/17 08:09 AM
Casino Wiring methods
by HotLine1. 12/09/17 10:44 AM
Ground wire Size to water Line.
by HotLine1. 12/05/17 12:11 PM
Flexible conduit to an outside Spa
by gfretwell. 12/05/17 12:28 AM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
243,062 Are you busy
179,499 Re: Forum
170,422 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 14 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#193125 - 03/19/10 08:52 AM blame game  
Rewire  Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 165
we were called to disconnect an AC roof unit at a condo so roofers could do repairs. My guy went out turned off power disconnected the unit taped the wires the power was turned back on for the heat unit to run. Got a call from the manager to return and reconnect.My guy went out and reconnected the next day. I billed the job . A few days later I recieve a letter with a bill from an AC company from the roofer. It stated in the letter that my guy left a bare wire that contacted the freon line and blew a hole in it requireing repair.I questioned my guy and he assured me all wires were taped and he even taped them together so it would be easier for the roofer to pull the wires thru the new plywood deck they were laying.I called the roofer and he said they were taped just not good enough he also claimed they didn't touch the wires.Now I am stuck with a 500 dollar bill.What burns me is I was never called about this and was blindssided with a bill.I would like to tell the roofer to go pound sand for not getting in touch with me.

Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:

#193130 - 03/19/10 02:06 PM Re: blame game [Re: Rewire]  
dougwells  Offline

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,141
kamloops BC Canada
When we disconnect equip we Have to make safe. I would have to put those wires into a box and cover.even if it meant a second trip to have the circuit fed though the plywood.
tapeing flying wires is not "make safe" here

#193131 - 03/19/10 02:56 PM Re: blame game [Re: dougwells]  
EV607797  Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
I'd have probably put wire nuts on the ends prior to taping. I still don't buy the fact that the end came in direct contact with the refrigerant line so "innocently". Unless it was a really poor taping job, I'd say that someone isn't being honest.


"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

#193137 - 03/19/10 07:43 PM Re: blame game [Re: EV607797]  
Tesla  Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
HVAC is operating his margin improvement program. Without human intervention the odds of arcing directly to copper without blowing the C/B must be judged zero.

Go up with a test example of grounded copper pipe...

A jumper ( use personal protective equipment ) will establish that the C/B pops on such a bolted-short.

BTW, I'd never consider e-tape enough to call it safetied off.

Much more likely his troops discovered that they were pulling hot conductors -- the hard way -- and this fee is their retaliation for your man's incompetence.

That the customer would re-close the C/B in cold weather must be considered a given.

A note at the RTU explaining the relevant breaker and your company phone number should have been left behind as standard policy. I would also inform the HVAC tech that the RTU has an electric booster for its heat pump; expect customer will re-energize.

Always assume that the property operator will violate OSHA logic.

Remember the typical HVAC tech is up there freezing his tail off -- rushing the job -- of course.

If he gets zapped and falls off the roof, you should be expecting a lawsuit to spread the pain.


#193138 - 03/19/10 08:39 PM Re: blame game [Re: Tesla]  
twh  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 922
Regina, Sask.
The roofers damaged the line and don't want to pay. Put up a fight. You might have to pay but at least your guys will see that you believe them and stand up for them. For the future, you need a policy that the wires will be disconnected at the feed end. Not doing so is just lazy, anyway. In addition to disconnecting, you also need to make the ends look safe. Tape is enough for a dead wire.

#193140 - 03/19/10 09:17 PM Re: blame game [Re: twh]  
HotLine1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,880
Brick, NJ USA
I have to go with the majority on most of this. Disconnecting & taping 'hot' wires and then re-energising the circuit is not acceptable practice. SOP is terminate at the source; ie: remove conductors from lugs of source breaker and make safe there.

Reading your starting thread, I take it that your man re-energized the circuit for 'heat' which I take as an energized feed was still present at the RTU.

Was any evidence of the damage offered to you? Pictures, damaged piping, etc?

Yes, it would have been nice if the roofer/HVAC guys called you, and who did what, and when did the damage occur?

Ever work with these guys before? Financial 'wash' possible? (Your service fees vs. the 'bill')

You may also consider the 'bill' as a wake up call for your man, it could have been a lot worse than a freon line damaged if a person was injured or worse.


#193149 - 03/20/10 12:29 AM Re: blame game [Re: HotLine1]  
Rewire  Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 165
We have set a new protocol for the temporary disconnecting of wires and I have given the tech a warning about this serious safty violation and that it will result in termination if it happens again.

#193151 - 03/20/10 12:41 AM Re: blame game [Re: HotLine1]  
sparkyinak  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,328
At a bare minimum, wire nuts and plenty of tape, with ample instructions. Without more to go on I guess I would have attempted to isolate the RTU wires from the circuit. I presume heating unit and RTU are seperate pieces of equipments? I would also fight the bill on principle. If you call BS on my work, you better back it up.

Last edited by sparkyinak; 03/20/10 12:43 AM.

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

#193152 - 03/20/10 04:24 AM Re: blame game [Re: sparkyinak]  
Tesla  Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Sparky in Alaska...

I've never seen separate feeds...

Instead, they are on one feeder...

The 'Booster' is a resistance coil based on pure kilowatts.

It is dropped in -- at the 'last moment' by the HVAC contractor during the job.



#193154 - 03/20/10 10:26 AM Re: blame game [Re: Tesla]  
Rewire  Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 165
I guess my main complaint is that I was never notified of a problem and was just sent a bill.I dont mind fixing a problem I just want the chance to do it. I also would have liked to have seen the problem so that I could address it with the tech .

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Orlando, Fl, USA
Posts: 49
Joined: August 2001
Show All Member Profiles 

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.018s Queries: 16 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8223 MB (Peak: 1.0045 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-12-15 21:31:57 UTC