ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
FPE in Germany
by NORCAL - 10/16/19 08:24 AM
Help with aging employee advice.
by Bill Addiss - 10/15/19 10:58 PM
Fuse blower plug?
by gfretwell - 10/13/19 03:23 PM
Power factor and transformer efficiency
by TeslaEdison - 10/13/19 04:05 AM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1 - 10/10/19 07:35 AM
New in the Gallery:
FPE Breaker panel in germany
What is this for?
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 11 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Receptacles near a shower/tub area [Re: harold endean] #186736 05/26/09 01:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
F
frenchelectrican Offline
Member
Originally Posted by harold endean
I am going where Greg is talking about. What is the tub space? What does 406.8(C) really say? "Receptacles shall not be installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower area." Does sec. 410.4 (which defines a shower area) refer to the shower area? Does it mean a receptacle can't be within 3' of the tub/shower edge?

I have seen many times where someone puts a TV in the bathroom but forgets to make the receptacle a GFI protected one. So they fail that job, but can you fail someone for having a receptacle within 3' of the tub? What is the code section?



Now Harold that will raise a very good point related to the receptale near the bathtub I feel it almost like designing issue if this bathroom is small there is not much we can do beside follow the NEC requirement.

Greg., Yeah France have alot of nice body of water allover the place however with the French Electrical code it is very strict and I mean far much stricter than NEC is the old regualations will NOT allow any receptale unless you have isolation transfomer AKA shaver tranformer now that slowly going out of flavour now allowed have RCD protected receptale but only in " zone 3 " I will try to find a diagram what it layout look like and the first metre { apx 3 feet } no recpectale in that location from bathtub or shower stall. that we called zone 0 or 1 depending on the setup the zone 2 can have switches but limited used receptale the zone 3 anything can go from there so each zone is expaned per meter apart it will change zone.

Merci,Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Receptacles near a shower/tub area [Re: frenchelectrican] #186854 05/31/09 07:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline OP
Member
I sit on a board that hears complaints between the contractor and the AHJ. In this case the AHJ does not want the receptacle to be within 2" of the tub/shower area. ( From what I hear.) I haven't sat on the case yet, but I hear what is going down through the grapevine. Anyway, if you agree or do not agree with the AHJ, about a receptacle within 2' of the tub/shower area, Is there a code section that he can cite? Is there something in the code that says a "Receptacle can not be within X" of the tub?" If so, let me know what that section is. I would need a chapter and verse that says that so that the AHJ can "hang his hat" on. OR is the contractor right. There isn't a code section that says how far a "RECEPTACLE", can be from the shower/tub area. There are sections in the NEC which talks about fans, pendant lights, etc.

Any thoughts?

Re: Receptacles near a shower/tub area [Re: harold endean] #186863 05/31/09 11:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Whether 2 inches or 2 feet, the AHJ is making it up as he goes along. Perhaps he infers this from some other standard, pr he is allowing for a standard tub to be placed where an undersize one now sits - in any event, it's up to him to make his case.

The contractor, OTOH, has no need to justify his position. Absent a code citation, he's in compliance. It's up to the AHJ to show otherwise.

Re: Receptacles near a shower/tub area [Re: renosteinke] #186864 05/31/09 11:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 85
W
WireNuts29 Offline
Member
Why 2 feet? don't standard appliances come with a 6 foot cord? it will only fall 4 feet into the tub at that point. if there is no receptacle present and the homeowner wants their precious flat screen tv while in the tub, they will probably run a zip cord type extension cord to the nearest receptacle. that being said you may as well give them the proper gfci receptacle. I'm kinda liking the glass idea brought up by Marc...however the nec is not a design tool right? maybe in the future bathrooms will have some type of dry compartment within the foot print to contain the tv and all associated wiring maybe the building codes will have something to say on this ?

Re: Receptacles near a shower/tub area [Re: harold endean] #186885 06/02/09 03:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 356
Niko Offline
Member
The way that i look at it.
90.4 clearly says that the AHJ has the final interpretation of the code.
I do understand that sometimes they (AHJ) and the code does not make sense but you have to follow it. Unless it is absolutely nonsense, which may be the case now.


Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live

Re: Receptacles near a shower/tub area [Re: Niko] #187007 06/10/09 09:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline OP
Member
Ed,


Most times the EC will usually do what the AHJ wants because it is not a big deal. It doesn't cost us much to move a receptacle over 1 foot. That is when the wall is open. Now once that wall gets closed up, gets tile or marble over it, now try to move that receptacle over 1 foot. Then it becomes a very big deal. The argument now opens up to, "Why wasn't it caught on the rough?" That would be the big question. Yet on "rough" inspections, a lot can happen between a rough and a final. Like different installers, the HO changes their mind, or gets a different appliance. So when the AHj comes back on the final, it might look "wrong" to the AHJ. Now what?

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
RonKipperDatacom
RonKipperDatacom
Kansas City, KS
Posts: 30
Joined: January 2013
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 10
Popular Topics(Views)
259,545 Are you busy
194,943 Re: Forum
184,371 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3