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Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: HotLine1] #185016 02/27/09 09:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Y
Yoopersup Offline
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Usually if Specs are written right they include previsions for additional supports for Items such as fixtures & mechincal vents ect.
and don't people who write Code have imput on commentry!
I know there not Code but most inspectors look at them for direction as well as as code intertperation books.

Building Codes & Related References
Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: Yoopersup] #185018 02/28/09 12:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,150
HotLine1 Offline
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Yop:

The path that I'm following here is trying to answer the OP original question, and explain which inspectors enforce support here.

Specs are written by Arch/EE and have to be complied with providing they are either 'to code' or greater. Mfg specs/instructions are mandatory under 110.3 (B).

Yes, I agree with you....I refer to the NEC Handbook and the commentary often. Most, if not all of that is easier to grasp, and assist all of us. I use the Handbook in the NEC class I teach. I have the NFPA Handbook, and right now I can't tell you who wrote the commentary. I also refer to Mike Holt's books, and his commentary.



John
Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: HotLine1] #185019 02/28/09 01:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 85
W
WireNuts29 Offline
Member
Although it is listed in the nec to attach lighting fixtures to the grid, I have been told by more than one fire dept not to. If my fixtures are independantly supported and the fire dept needs to get to an above ceiling fire. usually with a hook or back of an ax. they don't want lights and loose wires falling on their heads. 95 % of the work i do is commercial, and always support mc by buidling structure i.e. purlin, beams etc. until it reaches its target. for 2 reasons it looks neater, and it will pose no hazard to falling through the ceiling.

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: WireNuts29] #185025 02/28/09 03:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
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leland Offline
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Licensed 1986:
never have looked at a 'NEC''hand book'. Let alone give my money to the thieve!

This document is written in such a way that if you don't have a basic grasp of the English language and basic English comprehension,You won't get it. Whats wrong with that?

Learn to read like a lawyer. it really is not that hard. and MOST complaints I see/hear. is strictly finacial. Do it right..No problem.
It is our last resort of NOT dumbing down.

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: leland] #185027 02/28/09 09:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,387
S
sparky Offline
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i'm partial to the manufature's clips myself, they just pop right onto the grid, Besides, don't you just hate having the can disappear upwards changing the element....?

and yeah Leland, a roll of jack chain is a small price to pay for the silence it provides

~S~

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: HotLine1] #185034 02/28/09 01:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,282
electure Offline
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Independent support really all depends on which seismic zone one is in.

http://www.designco.net/us-seismic-zones.gif


In California we're required to support the opposing corners of a troffer fixture to the structure above with wires, and screw the remaining corners to the grid.

Originally Posted by CRW
We are required in most places around here, to attach some kind of additional support, usually ceiling wires, from the structural ceiling to all lighting fixtures that are installed in a grid ceiling.


In Pennsylvania, the State is split between two seismic zones. That could be the reason.




Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: electure] #185037 02/28/09 02:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Y
Yoopersup Offline
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If any of you are in the IAEI bring up this Question at your next meeting . Theres usually a Code Panel there Plus a couple hundred license inspectors. I Still feel the Handbook & Several other Code Reference books are great for getting a better Idea of the intent of the code . To Many inspectors make up the rules as they go.

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: Yoopersup] #185041 02/28/09 04:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,282
electure Offline
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Yoop,

The "Building Codes for Electricians" is the Area where we discuss the other Building Codes that affect how we install our work, not the NEC.

NEC handbooks, IAEI meetings and the like have little relevance here.







Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: electure] #185046 02/28/09 05:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
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Yoopersup Offline
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You might want to Read Annex A ( UL standards) & Annex E Referenced in Article 334 (Types of Construction) in Nec .
They are Refences to building constuction , Materials & Equipment and Geee there in the NEC.
So other Builing Codes are Referenced in the NEC.

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: Yoopersup] #185048 02/28/09 05:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,452
G
gfretwell Online Content
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I have written 3 notes on this topic and erased all of them. This whole topic always starts a lively discussion at the IAEI meeting and the code has addressed it several times in the last 4 cycles, changing their mind each time.
The last time I heard it discussed at the IAEI meeting the consensus was they want to see supplemental support and these supplemental support wires should be somehow visually distinctive from the normal T bar supports. One thing that is significant at our IAEI meetings is we have a lot of building official types who span several disciplines so it is not just an "electrical" opinion. I am not sure how that works if you have a lot of big city guys who are specialists.


Greg Fretwell
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