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lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... #184969
02/26/09 11:20 PM
02/26/09 11:20 PM
C
CRW  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 159
Bethlehem, PA USA
We are required in most places around here, to attach some kind of additional support, usually ceiling wires, from the structural ceiling to all lighting fixtures that are installed in a grid ceiling. I don't believe this is required in the NEC, but I want to know what code requires this. Nobody's ever given me a straight answer for this, we just do it if the inspector says to. We also attach the clips from the fixture to the grid, which is required by 410.36(B)

Building Codes & Related References
Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: CRW] #184976
02/26/09 11:43 PM
02/26/09 11:43 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
NEC requires lay-in's to be secured to the grid; clips, screws, rivets, etc. That is all!

Mfg specs (For some ceilings) may require support; Article 110.3 (B) says we must follow mfg spec.

Seismic code (Building) requires independent support.

Some Fire Inspectors/Codes require independent support.

The "Rule of Common Sense" which is NOT in the NEC leans to 'if the ceiling grid sags from the weight of the fixtures, independent support required' but that's not NEC

Ask your local inspector what article he is referencing.


John
Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: CRW] #184977
02/26/09 11:44 PM
02/26/09 11:44 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Michigan
your answers are located in 300.11, 410.16(C)
If you have 2005 NEC handbook read 300.11 explanation goes over it .
Most ceilings have to be Listed & Labled to carry the additional weight.
Theres also an issue here with Boxes & wiring attacted to ceilings .

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: Yoopersup] #184985
02/27/09 01:39 AM
02/27/09 01:39 AM
C
CRW  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 159
Bethlehem, PA USA
300.11 just addresses the wiring, boxes and fittings. I'm just tal;king about the luminaires---particularly lay-ins, but some inspectors require all recessed lights, cans, etc. to be independently supported from the grid. 410.16(C) 2005 or 410.36(B) 2008 only states that the grid itself must be securely fastened to itself and the structure, and that the fixtures must be fastened to the grid. I'm looking for another code, like for instance a building or fire code.

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: CRW] #184987
02/27/09 02:24 AM
02/27/09 02:24 AM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
---We are required in most places around here,---

Man! I cannot comprehend living this way! Every Neighborhood has different rules.
Ok done with that.

Think liability.
How much does a box (roll-depending on supplier)of jack chain cost?
How much to defend yourself in a lawsuit from Mary at the desk or Joe on the local FD?

It is all (supplemental support)2nd nature here in Mass.,Been on the books for ever.
One that I agree with. This code seems to be the only thing authority gets right.
Perhaps because the board (for the most part) is all volunteer.

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: leland] #184994
02/27/09 10:33 AM
02/27/09 10:33 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
Leland:

I have to add a personal comment here:

As an EC, doing primarily comm work I always had support wires installed for lay-in's, irregardless of 'code'.

The hassles of the Elec Insp passing 'ceiling, and then the Bldg or Fire Inspector leaving a red tag was a pain. This was a pain from way back when a lay-in was made slightly heverier then a empty six pack of alum cans.

Most of the comm guys here do install wires, although I cannot mandate it thru NEC. Sometimes more is better.



John
Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: HotLine1] #184998
02/27/09 01:04 PM
02/27/09 01:04 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Michigan
Read 2005 NEC Handbook 300.11, & 410.16 commentarys after Code sections.
Both say Fixtures included.
UNLESS ceiling Has been Listed for additional added weight.

Last edited by Yoopersup; 02/27/09 01:06 PM.
Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: Yoopersup] #185002
02/27/09 03:02 PM
02/27/09 03:02 PM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
In Mass.

410.36(B). Add a second paragraph as follows:

In addition to, or in lieu of, the mechanical fastening means, electric luminaires (fixtures) containing ballasts, other than simple fluorescent reactance ballasts, shall be supported directly to the building structure by wire, chain, or threaded rod of sufficient strength to carry the luminaire (fixture). Fluorescent luminaires (fixtures) shall be supported at each end of a diagonal axis of the luminaire (fixture).

Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: leland] #185006
02/27/09 06:35 PM
02/27/09 06:35 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
Yop:
Commentary is just that....commentary, not code

BTW: Not directed to you, but all of us:

When was the last time a 'sparkie' saw the grid spec??


John
Re: lay-in fixtures, independent support wires.... [Re: HotLine1] #185007
02/27/09 06:35 PM
02/27/09 06:35 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
Leland:
Thanks for the Mass amendment; we have nothing here in NJ re: this subject



John
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