ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
This Old House
by johno12345. 05/26/18 12:44 PM
Extension cords
by LongRunner. 05/25/18 12:19 PM
Fire source!
by LongRunner. 05/25/18 01:49 AM
Alternative income sources
by gfretwell. 05/24/18 10:07 PM
Furnace igniter leaking noise to stereo
by geoff in UK. 05/23/18 01:18 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 19 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Chandelier sans box #180049
08/10/08 11:50 PM
08/10/08 11:50 PM
C
Charles  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 60
North America
I have a bit of an issue... I fried an eighteenth century rococo crystal chandelier and had to take the whole thing down. Picture spending two hours taking crystal off of a six foot long frame, lowering the chandelier down from an eighteen foot ceiling with two guys holding a rope and then twelve dishwasher loads of crystal.

I have rewired the chandelier with three tiers on separate switches. Top tier on blue, middle tier (candles) on red and bottom on black. Originally three mangled lines of lamp wired snaked down to this chandelier... from inside of the ceiling. I am going to have to find the source from which those conductors come in order to deactivate and remove them.

We are going to run 12/4 to the chandelier but there is no room within the chandelier to make the connections and a box cannot be installed without destroying the original plaster ceiling and medallion, although it is not that difficult to fish to that location. How do I make these connections without a fixture box? The chain is bolted to a stub through a very, very small hole and there is no flush canopy. The chain has a silk sleeve over it.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Chandelier sans box [Re: Charles] #180051
08/11/08 02:15 AM
08/11/08 02:15 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,225
Estero,Fl,usa
Can you extend the Romex down inside the chandelier somewhere and splice it there?


Greg Fretwell
Re: Chandelier sans box [Re: gfretwell] #180052
08/11/08 08:13 AM
08/11/08 08:13 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,967
Brick, NJ USA
What Greg said above embelished:
MC/NMC (depending on wiring method required) secured to the side of the chain, which the silk cover conceals; to a splice point within/on the chandelier. You may have to hunt for a suitable (decorative) splice box thru a fixture specialty shop. I had a similar situation with a antique French chandelier years back, and used that scenario succesfully.



John
Re: Chandelier sans box [Re: HotLine1] #180118
08/13/08 09:27 PM
08/13/08 09:27 PM
P
PE&Master  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 138
TX, USA
how about a remote control, like a ceiling fan controller, low, med, and hi would be three switch legs to the lights sets.

Re: Chandelier sans box [Re: PE&Master] #180165
08/15/08 03:40 PM
08/15/08 03:40 PM
C
Charles  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 60
North America
Greg;

Romex cannot be extended down into the chandelier to make connections. There are two main hubs and you cannot access one without taking apart the whole chandelier (which can't be done while hanging) so the wiring has been extended up to the top.

John;

This is what I was hoping could be done. There is a large inverted crystal bell at the top of the chandelier that could house a splice box.

PE;

We don't want to do anything with remote controls, etc. They are always difficult to troubleshoot in this place because we have steel I-beams in this place as well as a huge (lead!) water tank above this room which makes cell phones and wireless devices useless.

Re: Chandelier sans box [Re: Charles] #180174
08/15/08 08:57 PM
08/15/08 08:57 PM
J
junkcollector  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 36
Central MN
Originally Posted by Charles
..well as a huge (lead!) water tank above this room which makes cell phones and wireless devices useless.


Can you get at the floor of this room? I was thinking that maybe you could install some sort of a junction box in the floor directly above and terminate your 12/4 in there.

Re: Chandelier sans box [Re: junkcollector] #180177
08/15/08 09:12 PM
08/15/08 09:12 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,967
Brick, NJ USA
Charles:
I've seen a few crystal bells, etc., used as splice cans. Some use the crystal 'hub' to splice the arms together. If you're against the ceiling & the crystal has enough space, & fits up tight....go for it. Plaster ceiling? Firecaulk the opening around your cable penetration. Then again, with the water tank upstairs....


John
Re: Chandelier sans box [Re: HotLine1] #180181
08/15/08 11:17 PM
08/15/08 11:17 PM
C
Charles  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 60
North America
JC;

The room in which this chandelier is located is about 2.5 times longer than it is wide. Above it are three rooms each occupying about a third of the length. The chandelier is below the middle room, which is finished, and the tank room is the end room.

Opening the door to the tank room, there is about a foot and a half between the tank and the door and the tank has a small ledge in front of it that you have to shimmy across while holding on to the tank to traverse the width of the area. There is no way to reach the chandelier because the area is too tight to get down in and travel under the middle room to install a junction box. Plus, the plaster ceiling is historic and is done in the rococo style, which means tons of decorative arabesques, vines, flowers, cherubs, etc. It cannot be cut into. There is also three feet of construction in some areas so it is not worth cutting through the original third floor hardwood to access this hole with a chain going through.

John;

The chandelier is about six feet long but the ceiling is over sixteen feet up. The upper bell is nowhere near the ceiling. The chandelier hangs about four or five feet down from the ceiling.

Re: Chandelier sans box [Re: Charles] #180203
08/16/08 09:58 PM
08/16/08 09:58 PM
J
junkcollector  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 36
Central MN
Charles,

You mention that the fixture was originally wired with lamp cord, but where did the lamp cord terminate to the building's branch circuit wiring? Is the lamp cord ran through the walls and ceiling to the switches?


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
HotLine1
HotLine1
Brick, NJ USA
Posts: 6,967
Joined: April 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
twh 7
Popular Topics(Views)
246,946 Are you busy
184,347 Re: Forum
173,548 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0038 MB (Peak: 1.1744 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-05-28 05:19:24 UTC