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#178006 - 05/21/08 09:16 AM License for work  
marsbar  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 31
london, ont, canada
There have been previous strands about 442A and 309(A-D) performing each others work. A 309 can work in a foctory and the company accepts responcibility for the employee and after 2 years the 309 can write for his/her 442. I am pretty sure that the same is for a 442 to work under a contractor for 2 years (full or part time) and can go for his/her 309. Can anyone tell me exactly how the process works.

Thanks for the help.


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#178020 - 05/21/08 01:30 PM Re: License for work [Re: marsbar]  
mr_electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 106
London, Ontario
Legally a contractor cannot employ someone to do electrical work for them unless they are a registered 309a apprentice working with a journeyman or have a 309a license. This is because contractors work in various places that are accesable to the general public. A 309 is a regulated lisence as well and this is done by renewal every 3 years.
A 442 license is not requlated and never neads to be renewed. You are limited to working for industrial facilities. I aquired my 309a first and then after meeting the requirments challenged to 442a and received it as well.


Never trust an electrician with no eyebrows!!

#178094 - 05/23/08 06:14 AM Re: License for work [Re: mr_electrician]  
frank  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 376
windsor ontario canada
I see 309a and 442a electricians doing each others work all the time and no one cares.This trade is not regulated in ontario.The 309a is a compulsory trade however and you must have that license if you are in business for your self and even then you wont be stopped.An employer can hire a bum off the street and put him to work as an electrician if they deem them COMPETENT as stated in the Ontario Heath and Safety Act.Ford only hires 442a Chrysler only wants 309a and GM will take either so there is no difference.You get paid for the type of work you are doing not your ticket.For construction matainance you get around $49000 a year industrial gets $59000 average.This is from the Ontario job futures web site.I can post the link showing some of the identical job opportunities for both licenses if you wish.
cheers


#178097 - 05/23/08 08:06 AM Re: License for work [Re: frank]  
marsbar  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 31
london, ont, canada
Thanks for the input, it stills bothers me that both take the same education except one class in third year, commercial wiring methods instead of hydraulics (442). I worked under 309 journeymen so we do most of our own installs.


#178107 - 05/23/08 02:32 PM Re: License for work [Re: frank]  
mr_electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 106
London, Ontario
Originally Posted by frank
I see 309a and 442a electricians doing each others work all the time and no one cares.This trade is not regulated in ontario.

According to ESA, a contractor IS NOT leagally allowed to send a 442a into the field to do electrical work. Ask any inspector and they will tell you that. This is what I mean by regulated.
Quoting "An employer can hire a bum off the street and put him to work as an electrician if they deem them COMPETENT as stated in the Ontario Heath and Safety Act." This is only true in a privatly operated operation such as manufacturing. These buildings are not accessed by the general public.
Only a 309a can leagaly work both!


Never trust an electrician with no eyebrows!!

#178129 - 05/24/08 03:14 AM Re: License for work [Re: mr_electrician]  
frank  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 376
windsor ontario canada
I have to disagree.I work in a public biulding that adhears to the ESA


#178131 - 05/24/08 03:58 AM Re: License for work [Re: frank]  
frank  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 376
windsor ontario canada
I still have to disagree.I work in a public building that ad hears to the ESA regulations in fact we have been using the ESA CCS contract for the past 12yrs and have inspections every 30 days on work done by non licensed people.Many apartment buildings also use there own non licensed maint personnel to maintain there buildings and only call contractors for more complicated work.Whether it's legal or not it is being allowed.As long as permits are pulled for new work and liability issues are covered no one seems to care and thats a fact.This is the reasoning behind the Masters license if you ask ESA and i have.Don't you find it ironic that you need not be an electrican to be a master electrician?
cheers


#178216 - 05/26/08 12:08 PM Re: License for work [Re: frank]  
mr_electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 106
London, Ontario
Originally Posted by frank
Don't you find it ironic that you need not be an electrican to be a master electrician?
cheers


I agree on that issue. Why should someone who has never touched a multimeter appear to have the same experience as me but yet still be called a master electrician!

Last edited by mr_electrician; 05/26/08 12:09 PM.

Never trust an electrician with no eyebrows!!

#178247 - 05/26/08 09:00 PM Re: License for work [Re: mr_electrician]  
marsbar  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 31
london, ont, canada
Thanks for the input, I will be speaking with Jim Walters here in London (apprenticeship rep.) I am pretty sure he is going to tell me the same: 309 public and 442 in factories. All I wanted to do was some jobs for friends and make sure I am not hanging myself in the process (permits) as of January I am pretty sure that I am not supposed to do work then have the owner call a permit to ensure the work is inspected. Here's the funny part, I have seen a lot of residential work over the past 3 years that if I did the same in the factory I would be fired.


#178750 - 06/10/08 08:32 PM Re: License for work [Re: marsbar]  
homerjones  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 35
0nt.
legally you cannot do work for your friends as you are not a contractor your friends will be fined as well as you and yes a contractor can hire any bum who knows nothing and send them out to do work as long as it is inspected as the esa says he she works for a licensed contractor who is responsible for them that is completey bogus but the esa lets them do it.


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