ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Business Related Discussion Convenient Store Help

RC: Is this a rehab or just the local.... Trying to get more income from lottery and cigs/soda?

If it's a rehab, with "REAL" future expansion, go the 400.
If it is just get more $ from soda,gum cigs and lottery. 200A is fine.

In this area now, they just want to fill the lobby with something to make a buck.
They make soooo much on the lottery.With the stipulation that they "sell" "food" products in order to get their lottery license.Hence the need for a "convenient" store.

I know people who own stores. More revenue off of lottery than anything else(worth the lose on the goods).Thats the reason they sell other items.

(you pikin' up what I'm puttin' down?)

SCOPE the WHOLE job.

most service station i useally run into most useally have 400 amp min. size both 1Ø and 3Ø system.

200 is plenty big if very small simple station [ if all gas heated ] with few coolers.

i did work on one truck stop i have to replace one breaker and that place the main breaker is dangbat big get this 1600 amp main breaker [ don't ask me how many subpanels just too many to count ]

Merci, Marc

It is more then just cigs and lottery, He is utilizing 1500 sq ft for store space. He is also trying to get a Dunkin Donuts Franchise to occupy what could be half of this space, but he is going forward with the store as he does not know the status of his franchise license. Provisions are being made for the Dunkin Donuts, power wise, if it does go. In the mean time, he is requesting outlets for a coffee counter until the decision is made for the Dunkin's.
I asked him for the power requirements for the euipment he is going to install and after a day or two of him doing research, he tells me he needs "5 - 30 amp outlets".
I had asked him to get a cut sheet of the equipment he is going to purchase and the 5- 30 amp outlets is what he came back. I said thanks for the info, not much help at this stage.
The DnD will not have any kitchen equipment on site so there requirements are a boiler plate 200 Amps.

I wonder in the end, what a customer saves by not using an architect and engineer.

For as simple as it the project is, to trained professionals, the average customer has to make all the final decisions. Give him all the right answers and hope for the best.

As for the coffee center ... here's how I handle it:

First, you throw a collar and leash on the customer, and don't let him go until you and him have together gone over the exact location of all equipment. I take some masking tape with me, and put notes right on the walls and counters in the exact spots where things will be.

Next, be sure to ask the customer what other (similar) businesses he has ... or that he is trying to copy. Then, go look at their gear.

Finally, if there is ANY doubt, get ahold of the vendors, and get the info direct from them.Even if the stuff has plugs - check the nameplates. Far too often, I've had equipment come with the wrong plug.

ALWAYS plan on the coffee center needing more circuits, more power than you plan for. Here's to going up a pipe size, pulling extra circuits, etc.

In my current project, the "drawing" indicated TWO 'normal height' receptacles. After talking with the customer in painful detail, that same wall ended up with ELEVEN receptacles, on eight circuits, with one near the ceiling (soda ice maker), one under the counter (soda pump), and six above the counter.

---First, you throw a collar and leash on the customer,---

WOW!!! You summed that up nice! I will carry that with me.
I am forever being razzed by my peers for giving the customer too many choices (my way of doing the job once).

RC. good advice. In light of what has been stated, Nothing less than 400A.


My thoughts, as you know, Were for the small 2 bay garage already running on 200A (all to common in this area). Everything is oil fired and air, no real demand.

reno, great advice! I usually would put it on paper as we discussed the layout, but what better then tapping the wall for final locations. I also like the way you "collar and leash" I normally refer to it as taking them by the hand.
I had a feeling in the beginning ther could be some nice extras here. The latest one is the existing, or lack there of, fire alarm system does not work. So we will be replacing that too.

Leland, I see your point, there is a seperate 100 amp service that feeds the service bay. Nothing but lighting out there and a receptacle at each of the three lifts.

Thanks for all the help!

On 1 job a few years ago, the GC was getting quite annoyed with the constant revisions on a machine shop layout and wanted to get his floor boxes located once and for all.
He had cardboard boxes cut out to the exact size and shape of the equipment the day that the Owner came out with his latest layout.
Once all of the equipment was laid out, the GC spray painted the locations on the floor and told everyone that ANY change from that day forward would cost money.

Amazingly there were no further revisions to the floor plans.