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#172126 12/14/07 10:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 32
sudsy4 Offline OP
I would like to hear any imput on a prceived problem in my company. My company uses a "Job Clock" sydtem for payroll, the problem is, this clock gives only a beep when logging in or out, no indication to the employee of what is being logged. Recenently there seems to be some problems with the locks logging wrong times or nothing. The maintains this is not possible and will not pay for any time not on the clock.
Does anyone know if this would stand up if contested, the employee has no way of knowing anthing is wrong until payday. I personally have nothing against a time clock but not one that I can't verify my time being recorded.

Thanks for any input.

sudsy4 #172130 12/14/07 11:27 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
e57 Offline
I beleive they are simular problems with electronic voting machines....

Anyway, if they are not paying you for time worked - they have a serious problem - maybe they should also have a supervisor logging hours worked. And I would definately keep a record yourself for when it all comes down - as in some states they will have to pay you a penaltee for lated of missing pay.

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
e57 #172133 12/14/07 11:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
They can take any position they want .... but it's not likely that the labor board will agree with them.

Early in the days of high tech replacements for the old-fashioned time card, I worked one place where we swiped a 'credit card' through the reader. Well, Murphy reported for work along with me, on my first day .....
I would come to work, and clock in. Another employee would come in .. and his card swipe would both clock him in, and me out. At day's end, his swipe would clock him out, and me in ... until I clocked out a few minutes later. So, payroll thought I worked 5 minutes in the morning, and 5 minutes in the afternoon.
Not possible? That's what all the experts said ... until they were able to do it themselves. Perhaps there was but a one in a gazillion chance of the cards being so coded ... but there was still that one chance!

I dislike the product you mention, simply because their advertising seems to presume that the employee is busy cheating the employer. As someone who likes to consider himself a professional, I have little patience for chair-borne commandos frittering away the money I earn for them, doubting my dedication.

If they're not willing to fix it, it's time to fire them. Find another contractor.

renosteinke #172137 12/14/07 01:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 301
Time clocks of any type make me sick. If you can't trust the supervisor and the guys on the job, then you need new people. I have walked out on several interviews when a time clock was mentioned, or I saw one at the office.
However, they do have their place. To keep the employer honest.
I worked at one company, where if you were one minute late, you got what they called an "occurance" Six occurances in one month out you go, even if you worked overtime everyday, and came in on weekends to help out. 450 people on payroll.

Next employer 2000 employees. No time clock. Everyone kept their own time on a time sheet and turned it in twice a month. We even used the same coffee pot, break room and bathrooms as the plant manager. They knew how to make people feel equal.

One more, My wife drove to work one day in terrible winter weather. She was two minutes late. She got a warning. The people that did not show up at all were not penalized at all.

Thanks For Letting Me Vent......John

sudsy4 #172168 12/14/07 10:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,438
We write our own time invoices for company billing, and hand write our time cards.... And our PJM doesn't do fractions, wants things rounded up to the next whole hour wink I've never used a time clock for anything but lighting and sprinklers

Lostazhell #172196 12/15/07 06:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 91
What's wrong with a time clock ? JValdes, you say the only function of a time clock is to keep the employer honest ? That's a load of crap. So I guess you're the only employee out there who records a late start whenever you are a few minutes late.

The bigger the company, the more lost time each month. You can't tell me ALL of the employee's out there would be 100% honest with their time card if they hand wrote it. The employers know this and thus the time clock is necessary.

I personally like the time clock system that provides each employee with two key fobs, one red and one green. The time clock is mounted on the jobsite and the employee's swipe their key fob past in to clock in/out. Why should an employee be paid for time not worked ? If you came in at 7:05am and worked until 3:35pm no harm done. But how many guys start at 7:05am and leave at 3:30pm ? But hey, it's only five minutes. What's the big deal ? It's theft same as taking material home. Multiply five minutes of time for each employee that does it and now the dollars start adding up.

Even better yet, biometric time clocks. This prevents any time abuse.

Yes, I am the owner of an electrical contracting shop and yes I felt the same way when I was an employee.

sparky 134 #172197 12/15/07 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 558
We hand write our time cards and hand them in at the end of each day the only difference is we "punch in and out" for each job we are out doing.. I have no problem with this, BUT the " management" is wanting us to be at the shop at 7:30 BUT we don't get paid until 8 regardless of what we put as our "start" time. So yes while I am out doing a circle check of the truck or gathering materials I am not getting paid for " time worked"... And we MUST have a 1/2 hour lunch because even if we don't we get 1/2 hour taken off regardless.... Not a big deal because we all make sure we take 1/2 hour "morning coffee", and our regular lunch..


Rewired #172200 12/15/07 08:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 301
Sparky..... Starting time is 8:00 am. Then you clock in at 8:01 am and work until 10:00 pm. Where I used to work, that would have been a mark (occurance) against me.

The only good purpose of a time clock is that employees get paid for the actual time on the job. Like if you work a few hours overtime and you are hourly or salary non-exempt, you get paid for those few hours. If you are on straight salary, you do not get paid for overtime.
Both scenarios can be accomplished by the employee filling in his or her own time sheet.

Punch clocks and whistles are for apes. Could you imagine having to drop what you are doing, when some stupid whistle goes off. Not me.
Agree to disagree....John

JValdes #172203 12/15/07 09:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 91
Rewired, you state that management wants you to be at the job at 7:30am but your start time isn't until 8:00am ? Why would you get there at 7:30am then ? If you don't get paid until 8am, arrive at 8am. Management cannot tell you to work for free.

JValdes, if the start time is 8am then you should be at work at 8am. If you're late and the company policy is to record this as an 'occurence', you knew that when you were hired and given a company handbook.

Also, your last post states, "The only good purpose of a time clock is that EMPLOYEES get paid for the actual time on the job." Your previous post states, "However, they [time clocks] do have their place. To keep the EMPLOYER honest. Well, which is it ?

JValdes #172205 12/15/07 11:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
I'll just sit here on the proverbial fence and watch both sides duke it out and instigate a little. I am not a company man by any means but I see the value of a time clock on larger construction projects. If I was a company owner, you best believe I would be watching my bottom line. Time clocks serve many useful puposes.

A good time clock system is a tool that takes an employee just a few seconds to use. It actually is a benefit to the employee since it is now a record in case of miscalculation of their paycheck. If there is an error you got a record to fall back on and is legible. Many places the foreman or supervisor had the discression of "hand write" the times in for several reasons that can delay employees like adnormal traffic jams and even new cars can break down unexpectedly. Many employer understand this and have measures in place for situations like this. Some employers prefer you to be late if you are running late. It is better to have an employee be late and drive safe then driving recklessly to try to be on time, especially if they are driving a company rig. The employee and the employer will lose more then just a few minutes of work if the employee gets into an accident.

Data from the time clocks can reduce hours of paperwork in the office and chasing down employees trying to decipher the chicken scatch hand writing. Mine is terrible. It can save time in proccessing payroll and save time in project management. We all know time is money.

The use of time clocks and hand written time cards both have their pluses and minuses just like the tools in your pouch. You may not always agree with your employers choices, however they are one steering the company. Some employers uses the time clock to micro-manage. Some times it is needed. Too many people abuse the honor system for the honest folks. Then again if the one signing my check wants me to punch a clock so I can get a paycheck, I will. That is part of agreeing to work for someone. The more efficent a company is, the more competitive they can be. The more competitive they are, the more likelyhood you have a job next winter. There is no such thing as job security

If the employer is just dirty rotten scondral just to screw employess, go work for somebody else. The overall market is good for sparkies and getting better every year. I work for me, not the employer. I will give them an honest day work and respect for an honest day pay and the respect back. Good electricians are marketable.

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
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