ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Violation Photo Forum Can't get the Cover on, and Gas Line in the way!

At least there is a window close to help vent some of the blast from the explosion if one occurs!!! I have customers ask me if their panel is safe because it is missing one screw on the cover. Never seen a panel with a gas line nearly inside it.

I usually dont say too much but this time what the heck (not what i wanted to say) were they thinking. I cannot belive this. Everytime i think this is the best hack job in the world you guys come up with this. TOTALLY UNBELIVEABLE Please let us know how this turned out. I am absolutley at a loss for words. A priceless picture that i copied for my old age. UNBELIVEABLE

It looks like there was never any intention of putting the cover on this panel - probably long lost by now. It makes you wonder what kind of brain trust would come up with something this bad.

I hope both electic and gas utilities cut off and red-tag their services.

Mike (mamills)

That gas connector is NOT supposed to pass through walls and should be exposed for its entire length, and it's a old one too. Hacked up electrical "work" and gas lines do not go well together or seperate.

I'm with NORCAL on that one. Those copper-colored gas-flexes are an accident looking for a place to happen. We have had numerous fire calls from those things splitting apart when flexed once too often, or put into a bind - kinda like the one shown. Hiding it away inside a wall cavity is like burying your head in the sand.

It kinda looks like the gas was there long before the electric.

Mike (mamills)

What were they thinking? Oh, wait a minute, they weren't....... Unbelievable!

A while back there was even a worse example of a gas/electric conflict posted here, but I couldn't find it in a search. In that case, an electrical service conduit was in place first, and then the gas fitter came by and NOTCHED the conduit (with conductors inside!) so he could run his gas pipe through the same space.

Looks like the electrician forgot the bushing on that service cable fitting, as well....

Electrician? Surely not!

And just to put the cherry on the cake, the moron put the gas tap facing in toward the conductors!

And is that a bit of gas pipe showing in the square hole in the sheetrock above the panel?

Gas tap?? I think thats a valve

Call the gas supplier, I almost would bet they would have something to say about it, here in PG&E territory they would. That gas connector seems to go around the top of the panel.

We haven't Americanized Alan enough yet! In British English, "gas tap" can be used to mean a valve like this one rather than a place where one actually taps the supply.

I noticed the opening above the panel as well. Could somebody have cut a length of gas pipe out and bridged it with the flexible to make room (such as it is) for the electrical panel?

pauluk, Yes, that's exactly what they did. I'd guess that the panel was "in the way," so they went around it with the flex. If you look towards the left side you can see a little of it peeking through.

Sorry Walrus; we call them 'gas taps', you call them 'valves'. [ Our bath tap = your faucet.]

At least you could have a very short grounding wire from the gas line to the panel... :-) If code permits or wants it. Are circuit breakers gas tight? If a leak develops and fills the panel with a bit of gas, and then someone overloads a circuit, and breaker opens with a spark inside it, and if it's not gas tight..... :-(

At our local community theater, there are five 30a. Square D breakers which we use to switch on/off the marquee lights on the front of the building (neon tube transformers use a LOT of current). I can observe these breakers produce a small internal spark - I assume from the contacts separating. It seems reasonable that the same thing would happen (maybe greater) if a breaker trips under some type of fault condition.

In the subject discussion above, the answer would be...BOOM!!

Mike (mamills)

Yes Mike, I've also seen this occur too.
I've reset breakers on to a fault before and witnessed things like a blue flame (as well as sparks) shoot out of them.
Now, this is assuming that the circuit breaker is properly matched to the PSCC of the service, I've seen under-rated breakers literally dis-integrate when asked to interrupt fault currents above their design rating.
Bear in mind, as PoCo wiring is upgraded, fault currents get higher because of larger conductors and transformers, people never seem to think that maybe the CB's in the panel might need an upgrade as well to cope with the extra PSCC.

{Edit:Look at them bare bits of busbar in the bottom of the panel, I would sort of think that these would be a real risk of explosion if someone dropped a metal tool amongst them, is there no requirement to shroud live terminals in a panel in the US, regardless of wether the cover is on it or not?)

Mike: (Trumpy)
No, there are no requirements to shield buss within panels, other than the panel cover. Installing blanks in the cover face for KO's is required (or 'spare' CB's); as well as closing any unused opening (KO's)

I don't know about New Zealand Mike, but you'd notice how all the new panels here now have shrouded breaker terminals, covers clipped over busbars, and so on. The North American units are much more how ours looked 30 years ago in this respect.

In fact we seem to be getting carried away to the point that no exposed, live screw/busbar can be touched easily even when the front panel is removed, and some people who should know better are even trying to put fault codes on inspection reports for old panels which don't have the shrouding. Despite the overall increased of shrouding internally, there is still nothing in the Regs. here which requires it.

I know a friend who works for a distributer of Square D and other electrical products, and I emailed him these pictures and a link to this thread. He showed it to some of his co-workers, one said that he thought that he had seen it all before this...

Learned something I figured a tap was a place where you would hook up a supply to an appliance??

You can't get the cover on? And you call yourself an electrician

Is it me or is the neutral wire totally hammered too? It looks like a bare conductor with tape on it or am I not seeing that right? Almost like they ran THHN or something bare in the wall?

WoW!!!

I think that's probably SE cable.

Ian A.

You got it, Ian!

SE cable

His plumbing skills aren't much better than his electrical ones. Look at all the separate fittings he used to make the transition to the flex line...

Notch that 2x4 out a little more.. and your in!:)

well if it don't fit, then just cut the cover like the 2X4

You mean like this one, Joe? Can you tell where the next cabinet will be hung?

Ha ha exactly what i was thinking, btw guys, i got my new camera phone so ill have some nice pics comming soon (who can i send them to?)

Since the counter ends under the current cabinets I would guess that the fridge is going in there. Unless its a very narrow European version its going to be in the way - at least it could be moved out if required.

Yes, the fridge will go there .... but there will also be a short cabinet mounted above the fridge ... hence the notch cut in the panel cover.

(Place was being remodeled after a kitchen fire).