ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
AreMetal Ladders Ever OK For Electrical Work?
by jwes2699. 01/21/18 05:58 PM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
Video: Inventor of the GFCI self-testing shocks
by Bill Addiss. 01/17/18 11:11 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 15 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? #169848
10/18/07 05:33 AM
10/18/07 05:33 AM
C
Chris Simms  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 34
Cohutta Ga
Doing a job wiring a finished basement in another city that I haven't wired in b4 so I called the inspector to see about the use of 14 gauge romex ( The neighboring city strictly forbids 14. Some kind of local ordinance) The inspector calls me back and says I can use 14 on the switch legs but not on the home runs and I can still use a 20 amp breaker! In my local home area, if you use any 14 in a circuit it must be on a 15 amp breaker. I had planned to wire the entire thing out of 14 but I am glad I called!
Chris

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: Chris Simms] #169849
10/18/07 06:09 AM
10/18/07 06:09 AM
W
wire_twister  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 265
Georgia USA
Chris,
I ran into a similar deal here where I live. I had pulled all the switch legs and homeruns in 12awg, the inspector told me I had to change the switch legs to 14awg and still fuse them at 20 amps. Makes no sense to me, I did not change them, made an apppeal to the board in the county where I was working and got that job approved. I dont know about the next one!!


Jimmy

Life is tough, Life is tougher when you are stupid
Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: wire_twister] #169855
10/18/07 09:07 AM
10/18/07 09:07 AM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
#14 wires good for 15 amps must be protected as such Except for 219.19 A(4) for branch circuits and in Article 430 mtrs.
As far as I see it.

Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: Yoopersup] #169860
10/18/07 12:15 PM
10/18/07 12:15 PM
C
ChicoC10  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
CA
I run into 14g back fed switch legs on 20A ckts in older say 50's - 70's homes around here quite often.
It was explained to me years ago that they used to allow that and since the "true rating" of 14g copper is 20A before the derating applied by 240.4(D) I shouldn't freak out and change all the breakers to 15A. I'm still tempted to.
I can't imagine why someone would actually require it done that way.
It's also common to run into really old fuse boxes protecting 12g K&T or cloth and paperwound cable at 30A and it seems it was installed that way by the original installer.

On another note: I can't find article 219 in any of my code books.

Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: ChicoC10] #169861
10/18/07 12:20 PM
10/18/07 12:20 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
OPPS 210.19 A (4) 2005 N.E.C.

Last edited by Yoopersup; 10/18/07 12:21 PM.
Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: Yoopersup] #169863
10/18/07 01:10 PM
10/18/07 01:10 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,166
Estero,Fl,usa
ref 210.19
... as long as that tap is 18" or less.


Greg Fretwell
Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: gfretwell] #169876
10/18/07 08:09 PM
10/18/07 08:09 PM
electure  Offline

Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,264
Fullerton, CA USA
I just looked in the 1940 NEC, and the rules, including the 18" tap rule are the same.

Off the topic a little bit, would K&T be considered to be in "free air".

I think your inspector must be "missing" something wink

Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: electure] #169921
10/20/07 08:37 AM
10/20/07 08:37 AM
C
ChicoC10  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
CA
I would love to hear both Chris and Jimmy's inspectors explanations for why they are allowing/requiring this.

Coincedetally, I had a callback yesterday to a house I finished about 8 months ago for a laundry light switch tripping the breaker.
Turned out to be the plumber had hammered one of his wire gas hold down straps hard across my 14/2G switch leg. The laundry room is more of a hall closet and I'm sure the light didn't run much or it would have shown up sooner. In the few times it tripped it had already burned the ground open and was working on burning the hot and neutral wires open. I wouldn't have wanted it breakered at 20A. But then again maybe that would have opened it up and cleared the fault sooner? Or just provided more energy to start the fire?

Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: ChicoC10] #169925
10/20/07 10:50 AM
10/20/07 10:50 AM
C
Chris Simms  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 34
Cohutta Ga
Well I never mix the gauges and based on what the inspector said I am going 12 all the way.
Chris

Re: 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuit? [Re: Chris Simms] #169947
10/21/07 10:52 AM
10/21/07 10:52 AM
H
highground  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 53
Chama, NM
New Mexico State Code says I can't run 14 farther than 75' because of voltage drop. It doesn't matter how heavily the circuit is loaded either. Doesn't make any sense to me.
So, what most guys are doing (including me) for say a general lighting circuit is pulling the home run in 12, then switching to 14, on a 15A breaker. I know it is bad design, and presents several potential problems, but I have to compete with other guys doing the same thing.

What do you guys think?

Highground

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
electure
electure
Fullerton, CA USA
Posts: 4,264
Joined: December 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 21
sparky 16
Potseal 15
Popular Topics(Views)
243,587 Are you busy
180,382 Re: Forum
170,859 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.017s Queries: 16 (0.002s) Memory: 1.0255 MB (Peak: 1.2069 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-22 06:09:26 UTC