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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 112
i suspect that, at least in some areas, there is some money changing hands, (under someone's table). how else could these jokers continue to get by with some of this stuff? and, its not just the "fly-by-nighters" either. some of these "contractors" have been in business for years, and have 50-200 employees.
[Linked Image]

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 257
Well, the Inspector was there today to inspect the appartments where all of the MC is not even close to being properly secured.

He had no problem with any of the work that was done so far.

I just don't get it!

I guess thats one of the reasons that I couldn't make any money. Too particular I guess. You know... Doing work that meets Code requirements.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12
To an outsider, this thread is greatly reassuring. Though I've never found a licensed electrician actually violating the code, I've met a few who seemed to think the code (or inspector) should be their standard of quality. The code actually represents the absolute minimum standard. Nice to see some of you put the quality of your work above all else.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 29
the problem with shoddy workmanship carried out by fly by nighters is the blame of the inspectors and consequently on the people above them. depending on how vigorous an inspection is varies a lot from area to area. a point that has been proved many times by just going threw a few of these postings. unless something is done to regulate or actually carry out the inspections, the cowboys will continue to realise that they can get away with that sort of work. whats the point in having inspections if the inspector isnt inspected.
i guess everyone is different, in england we were held responsible for our work.but on a personal note, i wouldnt be able to sleep if i knew id done something that could potentially be dangerous.i guess some people just dont have a conscience.and im guessing those are the sort of guys whos office is the back of a truck and whose phone is on a street corner covered in graffitti !!!!!!

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
Of course the errors described here pale by comparission to the time bombs we see out there, some of which have been ticking away for years....
{refer to violations forum}
Yet most were violations of one sort or another even back then, the 'existing' rationale being it simply had'nt been a problem
Workmanship exists as a secondary concern to safety {in terms of degrees} for those who think with their 'liability' lobe only... [Linked Image]
And safety seems balanced on the scales of commerce vs. litigation here


Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 391
I do like resurrecting threads:

Out at a service call yesterday where part of the work was to seperate existing living-room and dining-room receptacles into two respective circuits. This is a really old house, and the owner has been using my company for a while. This company recently did the service-upgrade; nothing dangerous there, but it darn sure wasn't work I would've been proud of.

Well, when I go to get a receptacle-count for each room, I notice that these are nice, new, grounded receptacles with unbreakable nylon wall plates. This ain't the original 1940's stuff, here, folks. There's only one problem: The wiring I'm seeing in the basement, which feeds the receptacles, is the original 1940's stuff: Cloth-sheathed NM with cambric-insulated conductors and no equipment-ground.

You guessed it: This company charged the homeowner god-knows how-much to go through the entire house and change out all his non-grounding receptacles with grounding-type, and these geniuses just ran a green pig-tail to the metal box and called it a day.

I don't know what's worse: That this outfit does work that rivals the quality of any jack-leg off the street-corner. Or that they bill the clients amounts that rival those of good electricians.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by BigJohn (edited 01-31-2006).]

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 693
You mean that silvery cloth sheath isn't conductive???

Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
The "jack-leg" electrician actually wields a double edged sword. He not only provides the customer with a poor quality product, and in BigJohn's example, resorts to downright DECEPTION, but also grossly undercuts the quality job that a real electrician would provide. It's unfortunate that hiring an electrician is not usually done in the same manner as hiring a gardener or a painter, where customers consider references or examples of their work. I believe that, even a relatively uneducated customer would recognize poor quality work vs. high quality work. There are many varieties of quality of work being done (or being perpetrated on cusotmers) - that ranging from highest possible quality (which members of ECN stand for), to that of such dubious quality that it should never be put into service.

Regrettably, most of the time it factors down to one single thing, as do too many things Quality, and the time required to secure it, are too far down the list.

Mike (mamills)

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
e57 Offline
I am in kinda the same boat as the oringinal post... Been on my own, worked for other shops where I was Field Sup. and now work for a new shop where I often point out violations or just poor work quality. Then I get in return, "What do you mean, it's fine, we always do it like that..."

Sometimes it's hard to be a Premidaonna.... [Linked Image]

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,333
Likes: 7

The 'inspector' you mentioned.....

Are you in PA?? If so, an area that has had permits/inspections for a while??? Or, is it a fairly "new" thing to get permits & inspections??

I 'got' a PA AHJ Lic (it just expired yesterday); thought I may 'use' it, but never did. A lot of guys here (NJ) thought about jumping the border for $$$ but I guess it didn't happen.

We have a few hacks here, some are Lic EC's themselves. Some make me ashamed to be a 'lectrician.....BUT, quality prevails.


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