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e57 #160806 03/26/07 05:17 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 55
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And then there's the other side. I once had a set out for bid and the bid came back so fouled up I called the EC and his reply was "I didn't know you wanted it that way". Wonder why I prepared detail drawings?

AZSam #160814 03/26/07 08:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 348
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ITO Offline
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One of the things I am starting to see much more of is plans that are just complete overkill. I understand if the client does not want MC or they want some room to grow later but some of the designs that come across my desk are a complete joke.

One in particular comes to mind, this project (yes I got the job) has a 1,600A service on it, and no matter how I did the load calcs I just cant come up with more than 790A; even with not de-rating anything and putting 125% on all motors it just does not go over 800A.

I don’t have a problem with selling the job, but when the owner asked for a VE, I told him about the issues and the engineer came un-glued. Then the city go involved because during the permitting process and service planning they saw the same thing I did and flat out said you are getting a 600A service, make it work. The city was not as generous with their load cals as I was and they were not amused as me either.


101° Rx = + /_\
ITO #160833 03/26/07 04:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 47
N
Member

I know that I overkill my jobs to a certain extent because I know that I will get called by the client to scale back - even if my Rev1 drawings were running Romex everywhere! If I start out a bit overkill - it gives me some wiggle room.

Also, If I design something a certain way and get it drafted and submitted to the client and they request it changed, If their is ever a problem or they don't like the way it end up - I can always refer back to my initial design.

Just my opinion, I know alot of it is CYA BS.



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I love jobs that are over done, because I can always sell a VE.

Last edited by ITO; 03/27/07 07:49 AM.

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ITO #160880 03/27/07 08:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 272
L
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What's a 'VE'?


Luke Clarke
Electrical Planner for TVA.

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 161
M
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Value engineering... making due with less cost, flexibility, functionality, etc. to bring the project cost down. (we charge extra to VE a project) ;-)


Mike Wescoatt
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 348
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ITO Offline
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Example:
Using MC in lieu of EMT is a common VE option.


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ITO #160889 03/27/07 10:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
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VE... we call that "cutting corners"

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 41
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Okay, VE. Bidding a job today; POCO requires, for their primary, EB duct, in concrete, chairs @ 10' max apart w/ re-bar stakes, #3 rebar @ 4 corners, 3' long. Job Specs- Sch 80, red concrete @ 10lbs per cu yd. #5 re-bar @ 4 corners, entire length, and down the 4 faces, # a #5 rebar wrap at least every 18". The duct is 1800' long. I offer a VE savings; I think POCO knows what they need... However, I do agree that sometimes it is cutting corners, sometimes a total underminding of the intended quality of the job.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 348
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...and sometimes it's a reality check for the powers that be.

Example: I am doing a job right now that the fixture package came in on bid day @ 250% of what I thought was a fair price. The fixture designer had put this package together with a fixture rep and the guy thought there was a lock on the deal. The GC notified me the day after bid and told me I was in the running then asked me for some VE options. I offered up half the fixture package, keeping a portion of the savings for me; the owner got a much better deal and I made a little too. The fixture I furnished were the same if not better quality and there were no cut corners.


101° Rx = + /_\
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