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permit opinions #157602
12/08/05 10:51 PM
12/08/05 10:51 PM
S
sparky 134  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 91
Joliet, Il, USA
I spell out in my contracts that permits, bonds, licenses, inspection fees are NOT included.

I submitted an invoice to a GC for $175.00 to cover the village's licensing fee and the required bond.

The GC refuses to pay it saying, " I have never had a sub bill me for this. What if you do other jobs in the same village, I am paying for you to work in the village."

Now, I know I should have simply included the fee in my price. That would have simplified my situation.

I have had a few differences of opinion with this GC so I don't think he will be using me for any future work so I'm not worried about burning any bridges.

Opinions ?

Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:
Re: permit opinions #157603
12/08/05 11:20 PM
12/08/05 11:20 PM
S
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
Engineering, Permits & Fees are Excluded.

This is in my contract and I never had a GC or a Cust bach at paying it.

Rob

bach? is spelling correct?

[This message has been edited by sierra electrician (edited 12-08-2005).]

Re: permit opinions #157604
12/09/05 12:06 AM
12/09/05 12:06 AM
J
Jps1006  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 615
Northern IL
If this GC has never had anyone bill for this than he is uninformed and is using uninformed sub's. Or they are just including it upfront. I'll bet they are just taking it out of their profit and rationalizing it with themselves that they figured it. I used to get intimidated by these types, but not anymore.

The only time recently I have eaten this cost is when I forgot to mention it upfront (maybe once in the last several years).

My old boss closed his EC shop and went to work for a big commercial GC running multimillion dollar job and saw how things get done. He then went out on his own and I did a couple of buildouts for him. There was no question at all about who pays these. Even his contract excludes these fees and say owner is resposible. Now this is coming from a climate of strong-arming favors, buying back bids, chipping small percents off expense after the job is sold, strickly to inflate profit by whatever small amount he can. If he'll admit it's a legitimate charge, then it is.

I also had another guy that would sell sunrooms all over this area. He would complain that he was paying $xxxx.xx per year for me to be allowed to work in all these different areas. I just laughed and told him I'd mail him a check for half if I get another job in that village before the year is up. He got the point that it is a job expense to that specific job. I also always gave him the option to get someone local, and that would shut him up too.

The only one I chaulk up as overhead is my local city that holds my license. I need it to keep my license current and I do my highest percentage of work here.

Re: permit opinions #157605
12/09/05 08:41 AM
12/09/05 08:41 AM
S
sparky 134  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 91
Joliet, Il, USA
Another question, can a mechanics lien be attached to the property due to non-payment of the permit fees ? I realize this answer may vary from state to state.

Re: permit opinions #157606
12/09/05 10:12 AM
12/09/05 10:12 AM
T
Tiger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 706
Crystal Lake, IL USA
You probably should have included it in your bid. How much are you going to go through over $175?

Dave

Re: permit opinions #157607
12/09/05 07:53 PM
12/09/05 07:53 PM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Why would you not build it in to the cost of the job? This is like billing separately for wirenuts.

Re: permit opinions #157608
12/09/05 09:00 PM
12/09/05 09:00 PM
S
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
I used to include it, but my competitors would not. This made them look cheaper and I would loose work. Besides, so much of our work takes place even without permits. Its wrong, but thats life.

Rob

[This message has been edited by sierra electrician (edited 12-09-2005).]

Re: permit opinions #157609
12/09/05 09:51 PM
12/09/05 09:51 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Permit fees are not usually included- if for no other reason than various government agencies keep changing, or adding to, their fees.
Such fees are also, when you get down to it, the responsibility of the property owner. I (In a "turn key" operation, this would also be the GC).

So how to resolve a dispute. Simply don't call for an inspection until you've been paid. The permit is in your name- only you can call.

The GC you describe is, at the minimum, unprofessional. You're probably better off working with someone a little more, well, competent.

Re: permit opinions #157610
12/10/05 12:18 PM
12/10/05 12:18 PM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Quote
Such fees are also, when you get down to it, the responsibility of the property owner

Exactly. That's why it should be built into the price.

Re: permit opinions #157611
12/10/05 01:05 PM
12/10/05 01:05 PM
J
jwhite  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 64
Trenton, NC, USA
You must have not bid this job on specs. The specs that I normaly bid from state clearly that the sub contractor is responsible for permits and fees. That means put the money into the bid.

Some areas dont use seperate permits for each trade. They use one permit to cover all the trades, in that case the GC would have to cover the cost in his bid.

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