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#156781 07/08/05 04:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
D
Member
Trumpy,

Your statement in your first post read

""You are liable for the whole installation once you open the panel dead front up, in some cases even less.""


My input on that was:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Think about it, you would have to inspect every wire, every connection, and every calculation, before you installed a new receptacle?

What I was refering to, was if in fact we were held liable for everything in the place like you stated. We would be forced to inspect every wire, every connection, everything before we did any work to protect ourselves.

Once again, I don't think that sounds correct. At least not here in the states.

Now I have no idea why you would make such a condensending statement towards my use of test equipment, out of this statement, but I shall let it go. Unless you want to elaborate on it.

As for signing into a building, Yes, sometimes I have to. But here, I thought it was for the company's insurance as well as for the fire company, in case there was a fire. That way all visitors could be accounted for in case of a tragedy.
"Hopefully not caused by electrical nature"(humor, haven't figured out how to do the smiley things yet)

Dnk.....

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#156782 07/08/05 05:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 2
Cat Servant
Member
Trouble is, these days "everybody's a lawyer." Indeed, I recently read of a service change that was followed by a fire, and a lawsuit against the contractor.
While the insurance company paid to get the matter closed, it sure looked like the actual cause was some wiring inside the house. A more cynical person might even say it looked that the occupants were busy rigging up this disaster while the contractor was changing the (exterior mounted) panel.

The whole gist of the claim against the contractor was that he somehow should have known that a dangerous condition existed within the house, and acted to correct it before energising the new service.

Not to be overlooked is that the first inquiry from the lawyers was as to the extent of the contractors' insurance- and not, 'what was the work done?'

These are serious matters- a dysfunctional legal system lets the sharks flourish, while us minnows run for cover!

With this, we return to how a successful business is based on a few good customers. When you have an established relationship, you don't have to worry (as much) about such game-playing.

#156783 07/09/05 06:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Member
New Zealand is still a constitutional monarchy, with Queen Elizabeth II as nominal head of state, and its law is still largely based on the old English Common Law, dating to before the Norman Conquest in 1066. While in recent years, NZ has looked to the USA, Canada and Australia in new-law modelling, Common Law and English jurisprudence still maintains strong persuasion in the courts there. Now, Common Law is based on perceived common sense, ( cf. Lord Denning.) and to expect any court to uphold a tort (grievance) attested by a plaintif on unreasonable grounds, like "He changed a receptacle, therefore it's all his fault the building caught fire.", for example, would almost certainly fail, given a competent lawyer and given lack of proof of direct responsibility. To get any action to succeed, Mike, you must have some proof of culpability and I think you're being a bit pessimistic as to the fairness of New Zealand's legal system.
Having said all that of course, we poor English ouselves no longer have the protection afforded by the old Anglo-Saxon codes, and are now at the mercy of stupid European lawmakers with the facile 'Bill of Human Rights', which rides roughshod over a 1000 years of hard won freedoms!
Alan


Wood work but can't!
#156784 07/09/05 07:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 30
C
Member
This is a topic of great interest to me. I have been concerned about my exposure to liability since I started as an EC two years ago(one man show). Does anyone really know what we are liable for and what we can do to protect ourselves?

I'm a sole prop. and am looking at becoming an s corp. It seems a bit pricy and complicated right now though. I have insurance but I guess I need to figure out exactly what it covers and for how long.

For jobs over $1000 I write up a contract. Perhaps I should have one for all jobs, no matter how small stating my hourly rate and all the terms and conditions in my other contract and have the HO sign it before I start. I hesitate doing this because it seems a bit paranoid and I feel it may turn off some of my customers. But this is the world we live in.

I know the laws are different from state to state but there must be some other CYA techniques that I'm not seeing?

Growler,
I did not mean to imply that there is some rule or law protecting unlicensed people from being sued. I should have said that you can't get blood out of rock. And liabilty lawers don't like rocks.

#156785 07/09/05 09:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 65
G
Member
An interesting point on liability. I was informed in a class that Workmans Comp. Insurance was introduced to protect the employer and not the employee. It turns out that a deal was struck where an employee could not sue if covered by workmans comp. I was also informed that it mite be possible for a temp. to sue you because you are not really the employer. I just wish I could get my hands around the necks of the lawyers that think of all this mumbo jumbo. Trying to deal with the law is like trying to mark you fishing spot in the middle of a river with paint. Things keep shifting.

#156786 07/17/05 10:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
D
Member
As they told me in Paramedic class:
Quote
Document, document, document.

If it wasn't written down, you didn't do it.

I document every action on a job site, and show it on the final invoice, regardless of having a physical contract or not.

(OK, maybe not the "good samaritan" placing of a KO plug or replacing a missing plate screw, but any action that would require a "competent and trained person" per the Code)

I also will issue "written advisories" as part of the final invoice concerning pre-existing conditions that I perceive to be unsafe or outside of the local and national Codes within the structure or on the property - Al branch wiring, unsecured conduits, NM (we're in a no NM area), lack of GFCI's, and whether or not I worked on any of it. I also document whether the HO wanted it repaired or left in place.

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