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#154598 - 07/31/06 11:34 AM AFCIs?  
SolarPowered  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
I've seen various statements that "The 2008 code will require AFCIs on all 15- and 20-amp residential circuits." Has that actually been approved and we're stuck with it, or is it just a request from the AFCI mfgs' marketing departments that's likely to be rejected further down the code-making process?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#154599 - 07/31/06 02:14 PM Re: AFCIs?  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
The NEC committees have accepted the proposals... you can download the proposalls here, and from other sites.

This is the comment period- the time to, perhapes, persuade the committee members to change their votes.

#154600 - 07/31/06 02:44 PM Re: AFCIs?  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,142
One thing to consider. These things run warm to the touch. What will be the impact of 20 of them in a panel in a Florida or Arizona garage in the summer?

Greg Fretwell

#154601 - 07/31/06 03:06 PM Re: AFCIs?  
iwire  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
It will be fine, you will just have to purchase $$$ the fan forced cooling accessory for the panel and put up with noise like a Nutone Bath Fan. [Linked Image]

Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician

#154602 - 08/01/06 11:15 PM Re: AFCIs?  
trobb  Offline
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 110
Iowa City, IA
But on the plus side you won't need to heat the utility room.

#154603 - 08/04/06 10:25 AM Re: AFCIs?  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
Just add $ 500 to the cost of every house that gets wired. Not counting the call backs for nuisance tripping and the fact that multiwire brach curcuits will be history.
[Linked Image] I believe that if this product is so wonderful that customers would demand it and the insurance company would cut your premiums in half for having them installed.
( [Linked Image] It all started with bubble covers.)
Put it in the Code to sell the product.
Send a Comment Form to NFPA to stop the madness.

If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#154604 - 08/04/06 05:59 PM Re: AFCIs?  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Alan, you are far too optomistic...

Almost every new house uses at least 25 breakers. A standard breaker might cost $4, while the AFCI ones are easily $35.
25 x 4 = $100 in breakers.
25 x 35 = $875 in breakers.

That does not take into account the additional troubleshooting, or other complications.

#154605 - 08/05/06 09:53 AM Re: AFCIs?  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
One member of the panel in his negative vote comment estimated that the cost per year for new home construction would add if this were adopted 2 BILLION dollars.
He then used NFPA numbers concerning fires to show that it would possibly prevent less than 50 MILLION dollars in damage.
The CPSC wanted AFCIs in all residential buildings not just new ones but the panel stopped that move in the 2005 Code.

If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#154606 - 11/23/06 12:46 AM Re: AFCIs?  
Almost Fried  Offline
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 98
Madison County, Ark. USA
It didn't start with the bubble covers, go back to '70 or thereabouts and the requirement for full size ground wires in #12 & 10 romex, then lately this business of grounded switch yokes helped pay the likes of Leviton and Cooper and others to move their factories South & Far East and retool. How many switches have you EVER encountered that failed in service & made the yoke hot?Plleeeaase! Of course, the "industry representitatives" on the code making committees steer the document in the direction of more business for the industries. Been watching this process for 39 years, Klein should stick to making the finest pliers and screwdrivers in the world, Greenlee should stick to making the finest ko punches and accessories available, do we really need racing stripes on the handles of $ 26 dykes, we don't need multinational conglomerates lobbying for code regulations that place good wiring out of the reach of most homeowners. Just how many fires are arc fault breakers claiming to prevent?

#154607 - 11/23/06 12:48 PM Re: AFCIs?  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Code changes go through the following steps before becoming law:
1- proposal made
2- proposal accepted
3- comments sought
4- comments considered
5- proposal finalised
6- proposed code submitted to vote at convention
7- code published
8- code accepted by AHJ

The AFCI proposal is at "Step 4" right now.

My own proposal on the subject was rejected, as more assertion than data. Fair enough. The committee and I will continue to have major differences in opinion on this subject.

As in the past, I expect the next major hurdle to be a "Step 8" ... that local jurisdictions will not accept that part of the NEC.

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